So since reward is sadly unacceptable dominance to you. Then tell us why do your dogs respond to you?
Give practical training example . Let say for down,... or sit. How do you teach it?

Prager Hans

OK in hierarchically structured order. .
Sorry for misspelling horses too. Silly you!
Prager Hans

I know it wasnt directed at me but thought I would stick in my 2p

Training my dog Mia to 'sit'
I waited till she naturally sat and gave her a treat
being a smart girl she is pretty soon she tried sitting again - and got another treat

She realised that her sitting down caused me to give her treats so she sat again and again

when I saw it about to happen I said the word 'sit' and rewarded her for sitting

she learnt that nice things happen when she sits when I say 'sit'

She dosent have to sit when I ask, she chooses to

I had tried to teach her by luring her but that didnt work for her
Other people have tried by pushing her bum - that resulted in her sidestepping and giving them a look of surprise

Where did I write that reward is unacceptable dominance

Give a practical training example How do I teach my dogs to sit/go down ? I don't have to my dogs can sit/stand/go down/walk etc all on their own, surely no dog has to be taught how to do these things or do your dogs stand around all the time until you teach them how to do otherwise ???

Now teaching dogs to do things on command is totally different & IMHO is best taught one exercise at a time using a clicker & reward-as the Meerkats says Simples

Nope my dogs & I don't live in a structured hierarchy either

Er you wrote about hoses not me !

I would not call this an alpha roll.

I think there's confusion here over the definition of alpha roll. You're saying it's never forced yet when someone is told to alpha roll their dog it means they're to grab it, force it onto it's back (usually "growling" at it while they do so) and pin it there until it "learns who is boss". It is most definitely a punishment.

I have seen many dogs roll in response to something another dog has done but I have only once seen one dog physically roll another. Given the dogs history and the reaction of the dog who was rolled this was FAR from a warning or correction, serious harm was intended. From my experiences I dread to think what goes through a dogs mind when a human grabs it, forces it onto its back and holds it there while it fights desperately to get away.

I guess you have a short memory, here is where you said that reward is s*d since it is dominance. Reward = dominance. Got it.

Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
Dogs respond to commands for two reasons:-

1. It means a reward for them

or

2: It means they will be forced to do so if they do not

S*d all to do with dominance
Prager Hans

I think I have made abundantly clear what alpha roll is. You may want to back up and read my post on that topic here.
Prager Hans

OK that is legit way to do it. Now follows next question : What do you do if your dog does not respond to your command?
Prager Hans

Yes I have misspelled word horses. However I speak or am able to communicate in 7 languages, how many do you speak? Also let me ask you: "Do you ever make a mistake?" Be honest now. Do you?

Anyway.
So, just for sake of explanation of your training methods and clarity . You got a new untrained dog into your house. And this new and untrained dog, decides to make a pile on the floor in your house. Would you let it? Or would you dominate it and stop it before the mount is too big?

Or if "a" dog decide to run under a speeding vehicle, would you, in order not to dominate this poor dog (since you are not living in structured hierarchy), let it run under the car in harms way?
And if you do stop him/her; aren't you influencing the dog from position of higher social ground and form point of higher ground of superior intelligence and thus dominating him? After all you are dominating his/her free will by stopping him / her to run across the street.

Maybe you can answer without inane joke about me misspelling word horse. Are you able to manage that?


Prager Hans