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Location: Camborne, UK
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 142
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21-04-2008, 12:43 PM
I agree with it in many ways- that the expression of the dog, with it's ears back and eyes looking nervous are deliberate. My dog does it all the time, like when I pick up her dog bowl to put it down, because she wants it really bad and so is acting submissive or 'good.' I suppose it is designed to mimic fearful respect but it doesn't mean the dog is actually scared they are just putting it on, as a signal. It's a way of getting out of a pressured situation or getting what they want quite often (such as her bowl of food).
It also makes complete sense that the dog, like a spoilt child will fight and get upset if someone tries to stop them doing what they want, because that's what they're used to and they will overcome most people with their hyperactive and insolent attitude. That's why they struggle, but it doesn't mean you are being cruel for getting them to behave, it doesn't mean they're scared. All the force is on the half of the dog usually, Cesar is just restraining it while it's going nuts, but people interpret it as him doing all the grappling. The dog is making it a fight, Cesar's only asking it to do something natural and polite- to submit. If anyone's going to win this fight, in the interests of the dog and it's owners, who should it be? Once it realises it can't get away by having a tantrum it is usually easily put on it's side and it calms down. Then the dog's eyes lighten up and it actually seems happier. And when it's calm Cesar rewards it with a scratch or a massage.
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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21-04-2008, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn 
I have 3 (used to have 4) i know i can call them off anything. Ive trained them! Anytime come & see.
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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21-04-2008, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble
Me too, I have 5 one of whom has only been here about 6 weeks. They are trained to return whatever the distraction, no matter how good or bad that distraction is, when I call they come.
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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21-04-2008, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27
I had a sudden brain wave when I was in the bath this morning.
The anti CMers think that the pro CMers think the anti CMers are too soft.
The pro CMers think that the anti CMers think the pro CMers are too strict.
When in reality, we all treat our dogs the same way. The only difference is semantics
So, apart from the alpha roll issue and the negative perceptions people have about CM (which the pro CMers can't change no matter how we explain it) there really is nothing to argue about!
Now everyone sing a long with me 'Good morning sunshine, the earth says hello, you twinkle above us, we twinkle below.....'
BUt yup exactly
not singing tho - really you dont want me too!!
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Location: Somewhere
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,087
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21-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble
Me too, I have 5 one of whom has only been here about 6 weeks. They are trained to return whatever the distraction, no matter how good or bad that distraction is, when I call they come.
Ben McF - there was nearly a tidal wave when I had that flash of inspiration
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Location: cambridgeshire, UK
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 157
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21-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27
I had a sudden brain wave when I was in the bath this morning.
The anti CMers think that the pro CMers think the anti CMers are too soft.
The pro CMers think that the anti CMers think the pro CMers are too strict.
When in reality, we all treat our dogs the same way. The only difference is semantics
So, apart from the alpha roll issue and the negative perceptions people have about CM (which the pro CMers can't change no matter how we explain it) there really is nothing to argue about!
Now everyone sing a long with me 'Good morning sunshine, the earth says hello, you twinkle above us, we twinkle below.....'
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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21-04-2008, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I think the point that me and some others have been trying to make here is
some things is CM's book are v basic (and good) advice that you could find from just about any trainer, behaviorist or whatever - boundries, food, affection, staying calm
some things are based on CM's experience growing up and some taken from other trainers but v different to what other trainers use
dominance, alpha roll, submissive, taming the wild beast
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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21-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27
This is off topic, but, from a philosophical point of view (and a Buddhist one) you cannot predict anything like that 100%. You just never know, there could be that one time (and it may be only once in your dog's life) when it doesn't come back for whatever reason.
Ben McF - there was nearly a tidal wave when I had that flash of inspiration
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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21-04-2008, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by MaryS;1353699[I
Sorry, but you are quite out of date about Mech. Its easy to become so, when science is not a static discipline.His website explains that he has withdrawn his conclusions about alpha dominance, and has written to the publishers asking them not to reprint his earlier work....(apparently they haven't listened).
Please do not take offence, but usually its best to report one's own views in a discussion like this, rather than what a friend had read as its very difficult to have a discussion with a third party interpretation of it....and bad enough when its all of us
Mary[/I]
I didn't realise he had a website, I must google for it, I bet it's interesting
I found a link a while ago, whilst checking out some dvds I wanted, and here Jean Donaldson US trainer/behaviourist talks about having lunch with Mech:
http://www.dogwise.com/video/video.cfm?itemid=DTB966
it is about just over one third in
(info re the dvd here: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB966 )
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