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tawneywolf
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25-02-2015, 06:57 PM
Aren't dogs in rescue placed in a run where they can move about, and don't they get out for exercise or a walk during their day
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PONlady
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25-02-2015, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.Bulldog View Post
So...any further advice for the OP?
Yes, don't get the dog.
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mjfromga
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25-02-2015, 07:04 PM
And one more thing. The difference in laws makes a ton of difference. What could be a crime over there may not be one here, so your ethics are just that, your ethics. Not everyone believes it's cruel or abusive, so that is not universally a fact. Our states laws on animal abuse are quite minimal. Here they are.

(b) A person commits the offense of cruelty to animals when he or she:

(1) Causes physical pain, suffering, or death to an animal by any unjustifiable act or omission; or

(2) Having intentionally exercised custody, control, possession, or ownership of an animal, fails to provide to such animal adequate food, water, sanitary conditions, or ventilation that is consistent with what a reasonable person of ordinary knowledge would believe is the normal requirement and feeding habit for such animal's size, species, breed, age, and physical condition.

(d) A person commits the offense of aggravated cruelty to animals when he or she:

(1) Maliciously causes the death of an animal;

(2) Maliciously causes physical harm to an animal by depriving it of a member of its body, by rendering a part of such animal's body useless, or by seriously disfiguring such animal's body or a member thereof;

(3) Maliciously tortures an animal by the infliction of or subjection to severe or prolonged physical pain;

(4) Maliciously administers poison to an animal, or exposes an animal to any poisonous substance, with the intent that the substance be taken or swallowed by the animal; or

(5) Having intentionally exercised custody, control, possession, or ownership of an animal, maliciously fails to provide to such animal adequate food, water, sanitary conditions, or ventilation that is consistent with what a reasonable person of ordinary knowledge would believe is the normal requirement and feeding habit for such animal's size, species, breed, age, and physical condition to the extent that the death of such animal results or a member of its body is rendered useless or is seriously disfigured.

As you can see, there is neigh nothing about a dogs emotional state involved and if there is no visual trauma to the dog, I have a hard time seeing where what he's doing would count as abuse. The laws do not even state that you have to provide anything other than basic survival essentials. Like I said, I see real abuse all the time, and things are different here so to me, being in a crate for what is considered too long by many isn't abuse. He also said he planned on giving the dog free run as soon as he could.

This argument has become futile. You're allowed to believe what you like and we will never agree. I'm not going to waste anymore time. We are of different mindsets. That's that.
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mjfromga
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25-02-2015, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
Aren't dogs in rescue placed in a run where they can move about, and don't they get out for exercise or a walk during their day
I know no rescue that does this. In better shelters, volunteers come to play with the dogs once a day or whenever they can, but they are still caged once they're done. Many dogs in rescue have behavior issues that make it unsafe for them to be together. Tons of fights etc. would occur if the dogs were kept loose in runs. In pounds, the dogs are given a quick assessment and often locked in the cages even long enough to pee and poop themselves. Or at least, that's how it's mostly done here.
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PONlady
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25-02-2015, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
And one more thing. The difference in laws makes a ton of difference. What could be a crime over there may not be one here, so your ethics are just that, your ethics. Not everyone believes it's cruel or abusive, so that is not universally a fact. Our states laws on animal abuse are quite minimal. Here they are.

(b) A person commits the offense of cruelty to animals when he or she:

(1) Causes physical pain, suffering, or death to an animal by any unjustifiable act or omission; or

There it is, right there - "suffering"
That's what neglect causes.

Thanks so much for clarifying that it is also an offence in your State! I'm sure the OP will be pleased to read that, I just hope he reads it in time!
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Mr.Bulldog
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25-02-2015, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by PONlady View Post
Yes, don't get the dog.
By all accounts he will now have the dog, we shall amend your position to "return the dog".
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Jackie
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25-02-2015, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.Bulldog View Post
By all accounts he will now have the dog, we shall amend your position to "return the dog".
Plus, don't ask for advice if you have no intention of taking it.
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mjfromga
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25-02-2015, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by PONlady View Post
There it is, right there - "suffering"
That's what neglect causes.

Thanks so much for clarifying that it is also an offence in your State! I'm sure the OP will be pleased to read that, I just hope he reads it in time!
You seemed to missed the word physical. Very important. The laws ONLY apply to physical forms of suffering. The way it's written clarifies this. Emotional trauma is not mentioned anywhere and the laws neither care about, nor address this form of suffering. Often, it's not tangible or easily seen, so it's a waste of time in their eyes to even bother with it.

Had they included emotional suffering, they'd have omitted the word "physical", but it's there for a very good reason.
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Mr.Bulldog
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25-02-2015, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
Plus, don't ask for advice if you have no intention of taking it.
True enough, either way I doubt an update on the situation will be forthcoming, OP will more than likely be taking off with whatever of his backside remains intact after the chewing its received. Personally I'd have pursued diplomatic channels for a bit longer before coming in like a ton of bricks but feelings do run high over such matters.
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Popster
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25-02-2015, 07:31 PM
I hope this dog is going to be ok but like I said in an earlier post the OP should be taking more time to introduce the dog into his home (not just Thursday to Sunday as he stated). In my opinion at least a week preferably more. This gives time to bond more, time to leave the dog say for 15 mins without crating, listening outside etc, seeing if any damage or toilet accidents on return. Getting to know the dog is very important and who knows, if the OP affords more time to his new dog initially then this 'crate' may not even be needed. And we would all have got hot and bothered over nothing! Sadly though we all see on tv or hear on media rescue dogs that don't work out.
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