I agree Shona, and this is a problem.
As you probably know, some insurers will pay out for behaviour advice which solves the problem.

Even within the same organisation costs will differ a lot - around here, same organisation and the behaviourists charge between £70 and £150 ... in some areas they will charge way more than that. (MInd you, I've heard Jan Fennell charges £300 - not sure if that is correct).

I do think sometimes owners are genuinely hard up but there are some owners who are perfectly happy to spend money on cigarettes, nights out and the latest gadgets but seem to resent spending so much on their dog.

Down here, which I guess may be a bit different to your area perhaps? people may sometimes complain about being charged say £100 and yet they are the same who will happily spend that amount on a meal out, toys for kids or whatever they fancy. Having said that, many are only too glad to spend money which helps their dogs and themselves.

I do think behavioural advice and help should be for everybody though, for the sake of dog welfare and am not sure what the answer is .... I think this is why we need very savvy dog trainers who can help for some problems certainly and who may charge less for various reasons. I mean lots of people take their dogs to training classes and get what amounts to beheavioural help there....

Also many reputable peeps - trainers and behaviourists - are helping out rescues so perhaps that side of things is to be encouraged.

Wys
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Easily done....!!!

Wys
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From what I've seen on this forum & on others, & from my own experiences with clients & dog owners, there is a huge variety of knowledge, experience, confidence & ability. My posts were certainly not intended to be "condescending & preaching" & I'm sorry that you've taken them that way. I am very aware that forums such as these are read by a huge range of people with very different experiences with dogs, from the first time owner to dedicated trainers etc that have been working with dogs for years. So I don't like to make too many assumptions about people, hence perhaps why you think I've given the impression that people on here are "stupid" or that others think I'm "preaching to the converted".

And yes I do appreciate the importance of empathy with clients ~ & much of the work I've done with both dog & cat owners starts with gently "disengaging" them from entrenched & misguided views about animal behaviour. I've had cat clients tell me that their cat wants to be "leader of the pack" & the reason it toilets on their bed is out of revenge, or it's being dominant!!!! When faced with views like that, I have realised that sometimes it is necessary to go back to basics. But obviously there's no point in alienating dog or cat owners by being condescending or patronising when what is needed for the animal's welfare, is for the client to successfully carry out suggested behavoiural modification.

I agree with all you have said, we have some really questionable trainers round this way its quite worrying really.

I had a chap come up to me outside of SKC champ show, he was from Stirling area, he handed me a business card, then went on to spout on about how he was like the scottish dog whisperer that he had an old quarry that was now filled with water that he would take his pack of dogs to daily, all dogs stayed with him for training { prob so he can use E collars} I stood there cringing.
In the end I walked away and left Dougie stood there with him, {Dougie loves a good wind up } but I do worry how many people are handing dogs over to him for a week at a time with a large dollop of cash

wiber I could give you months of work with my cat hes not wired up right at all though I think much of it has to do with him being hand reared?

but why oh why does he not run from strange dogs? in fact he walks towards them and head butts them then runs his body over them? is he cookoo? yes he lives with multi dogs but surely he should know that strange dogs can be dangerous???
though hes always got away with this behaviour as the dog seems kinda shocked that the cat has not ran,

Wysiwyg ~ thank you ~that's the article I was referring to earlier. I couldn't remember where I saw it or the part about rehab specialists but I agree that there's a need for one-2-one specialists who can give hands-on practical advice to owners of dogs with serious problems.

I think a lot of qualified behaviourists are peed off with people that do a three week internet course and then go out practicing and charging a fortune!

Most degree courses (there aren't many canine specific courses in the UK) combine behaviour with training. If you acquire a prospectus you will see the amount of hard work that it takes to become qualified.

I wouldn't call it snobbery and I can understand their situation.

I think you need both training and behavioural knowledge. You have to understand *WHY* the dog isn't performing the relevant behaviour and then you have to write a training program as an alternative.
It's good to have a foot in both camps!
Tony.

~ canny cat you've got there!

I had a similar cat ~ even though I didn't have dogs at the time so he wasn't used to dogs, he still chose to approach dogs rather than run away.

It could be for several reasons that your cat does this but without knowing more or seeing him, I'll give you some general ideas & maybe you can see which one (or combination?) may fit your cat.

One reason is that your cat has learned that dogs are not to be feared because he's had enough encounters with different dogs to generalise this perception to all dogs. Chances are that most cats stay in & around their home territory so all encounters with dogs are in the same place so there's no need to generalise in different locations like you'd do with dogs.

Another reason could be that your cat was/is fearful of dogs but has learned that dogs will not be aggressive or chase them if he "gets in first"? Not as many dogs are going to chase a stationary cat or one that is approaching it.

Another reason (& I think this was the one that applied to my cat) is that the normal escape/avoidance strategy that cats deploy is "vertical escape". If there's a nearby tree, fence or some curtains, they will escape upwards. Unfortunately my cat was the most rubbish climber I've ever come across, & I think he knew it. So this meant that the normal escape strategy wasn't available plus, as he was not particular fast, his chances of running away were not very good, so he used "fight" rather than "flight". Hence he stalked confidently towards a dog as this usually stopped the dogs in its tracks.

Some cats get to know canine body language (very different from feline body language) & therefore know when a dog is likely to chase, be aggressive or will be friendly. I've used some of my more confident cats to "cat test" rescue dogs to see how reactive the dog is to cats & whether it could ever live in a home with a cat. (I don't do this anymore as I don't think the test is particularly accurate for lots of reasons & it's not fair on my cats). But there were some dogs that my cats decided were not approachable AT ALL! But other dogs could be watched from a distance & other dogs could be approached or ignored. So I suspect that dog-wise cats can learn about canine body language. My cats have certainly learned that an excited labrador's tail is something to avoid at all costs

thanks for that, its interesting you mention the climbing thing, Kobie is terrible at climbing we got him at just over a week old, possibly around 10 days he was bottle fed, his mother was a farm cat that just didnt come back one day,
I often wondered if being raised with the dogs made him more confident, its also interesting about the territory thing, He is not a cat that wanders far, the field at the back of the house is as far as he goes, unless he follows us on walks with the dogs. I can tell you that turns a few heads 4 rotties and a cat out for walks

LOL---we had one who did that. He rushed up to dogs on the bridlepath we live on. We also had one who used to leap in front of cars----my mum used to stop and give him a drive in with her and he thought everyone ought to!

When we first had Pippin (the feral/wild dog) his first attempts at contact with anything was with the cat. I think he must have followed them for food when he was living wild.

rune