I must have missed the problems you are having with Woody, Pidge, as I haven't been on Dogsey as much as usual at the mo, with lambing time etc. If I have time, I will have a look after and see what problems you are having with him.

For now though, I agree with the above. Take some time out from a strict training regime. Take Woody (and Neil!) on some long country walks, let him charge about and do his daft springer stuff. You are clearly really stressed and tired, which Woody will pick up on.

Hugs - it WILL get better

I totally feel for you right now, i've been through the same thing with my husband on quite a few occasions with regards to training, he lets me do all the formal stuff now and he does the fun ridiculous things like teaching tricks.

We went through this situation recently with Arrow as he decided to hit adolescense a bit later than expected, he started at 18 months! He was doing exactly the same as woody but not chewing holes in walls etc ( just generally bouncing around woofing back and avoiding everything)... just look at it this way, skirting boards can be replaced, walls can be filled and re-painted, your relationship with your husband is high priority, you don't want that to fall apart. What my husband and i decided was to leave all formal training and just stick with what we really needed, him to listen to us, we made a game plan to just ignore his behaviour no matter how much it escalated, he soon realised it was getting him nowhere and he ended up just chilling on the floor. We didn't praise him for relaxing as it would get him worked up again, we didn't talk to him, we were much more quiet with what we did, we wouldn't raise our voices we would wait until he realised his behaviour was getting him nowhere, then we would tell him what we wanted him to do and when he did it we gave him a pat on the head and used a gentle voice. Its now all kicking in. With highly excitable dogs i find over-praising them( high voice and vigorous rubbing) actually gets them more excitable, so if you want a dog to be calm, thats how you have to be. Its so hard, but you need to just take it in turns to sit in a room quietly for ten minutes, get it out of your system then go in relaxed together and deal with it.It's getting out of that frustrated frame of mind thats really hard, but if you don't it just gets worse. You can't do anythng while your angry and frustrated.

My husband and i have completely different ideas about training so having just me do the main traning he doesn't have to deal with the frustrating part because i can deal with it better than he can, so having him sitting relaxing while i do the hard work, is good for us both because i don't have him coming in undermining me and his stress levels have dropped which in turn calms me down as i know i won't have him telling me to shut him up or calm him down. He's now learning, but its taken 7 years for him to accept the dogs as family, he's not much of a dog person, but he is now we have three lovely behaved dogs..now i'm waiting for Seren to hit woody's age, i'm sure we'll go through it all again. But you'll look back when its over and you'll realise your actually stronger as a couple for having to deal with something thats obviously testing you as a couple and getting over it. Really my thoughts go out to you, but if my stubborn husband and my high stubborness can do it then so can you and your OH. big squishes coming your way xx

I had no idea what you were going through either Pidge as I just don't get online as much as I'd like to and often miss posts.

I must admit after reading this whole thread I felt it was your diary entries that provided the most enlightenment to me.

After reading those bits I've highlighted and you look at it from Woodys point of view, his behaviour is actually being inadvertantly rewarded.

I think he is a dog that has got used to getting his own way. Sounds like a very bright boy who has learned if he chews the wall/paws or cries at you and makes a nuisance he will get a chew or attention from you. By doing this he is getting what he wants and being rewarded for the negative behaviours.


Now as a pup, Marius used to do some of these wee tricks - at night time in particular. The stone thing was a trick he used to try and also he would pester for cuddles. After hitting walls with distraction techniques we found the simplest of actions stopped him - we just took him through to the kitchen for 'time out'. No scolding or dragging, just calmly take him through and leave him. Just for a couple of mins (up to 10mins depending on how hyper he got) and he soon got the idea that he had to settle and not pester us at night otherwise he would get the OPPOSITE of what he wanted and instead of attention got time out. He just doesn't do it now full stop, but had we bowed to him, I am certain he'd have had us running around like fools after him trying to placate him.

With regards to the crate, putting him in it when he's bushed to have a kip is a fab idea. I would do that more often so he associates it not just with you going out, but just as his space to relax in. As he seems to hate the door being shut (Marius was the same), why not just leave the door open - you can still have him in a separate room?

Woody is an energetic and very bright boy - I'm sorry to hear how much he is affecting your home life. I do hope the training works and his behaviour improves soon. You can do it, go girl!!

Hi Mini

Woody is crated for four hours, twice a day, three days a week. He hasn't slept in it at night for months, although he is now in the travel one by our bed because our behaviourist wants us to get him to enjoy it more. All of this is OK by our behaviourist.

Re your other comments, what do you think we should do about him then?

Don't worry Moobs, it''s getting much better. We know what we need to do now and the past few nights have been excellent!!

He's a handful, but we know what to do now and have had some fab advice that really seems to be working. I really feel that we will get there with it all. Thank God, I was worried for abit there ;o)

Hi Pidge you are seeing a behaviourist, they are aware Woody is confined in a crate on some days when you are at work/on a house lead in the evening/in a travel crate at night, and they say that is ok . I would not dream of suggesting you should do other than this . The behaviourist no doubt has a strategy for sorting Woody out .

As I said in my earlier post, I was making an observation....
I personally have concerns about crating/confining some dogs (and working breeds in particular) for long periods (as some members also agreed in your previous thread) because I think it can lead to problems. I do realise that sometimes a person's circumstances change and they are forced to consider options which may differ from those they would normally choose.

If I may add one more thing and as with my post above please don't take this the wrong way, that being as some kind of criticism or saying what you did wrong or should have done differently , this is again just an observation which may help others...

When someone is considering getting a puppy I think a lot of though should be given to the breed and whether or not the puppy will have to be left for long periods.

I think also sometimes one can try too hard in an effort 'to do the right thing' and this is easily done with a lovely new puppy. It is a matter of getting the balance right. I would like to use an analogy here of those parent who fill every second of there child's day with ' extra curriculum activities' and the child never gets a chance to just be a child, to get dirty and to amuse itself. Likewise with puppies, they need some time to just potter around being puppies..(while unobtrusively observed to begin with to make sure they are not 'up to no good' so that they can learn how to amuse themselves).

People frequently post on here concerning what they think may be 'separation anxiety' but may just be a puppy not having got used to being alone, and I have replied many times eg..
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?p=1531711#post1531711

This suggestion won't of course prevent some problems arising ( like displacement activities caused by boredom /chewing as a part of teething) but it may help to prevent some happening .

As I also said in my earlier post , Zak has been a real horror at times, but he has improved a lot with the maturity that comes when a puppy begins to become an adult..

Hi Pidge hun

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say I know what it's like to lose patience with a dog. I have totally been there, but once I'd been at it for a while I've found that I am able to kind of shrug it off.

I get frustrated at times, but I think to myself 'It's a dog. It's doing dog things. It's ok.'

I haven't experienced anything like the behaviours you're getting with Woody however and I can see that it's really difficult for you.

Hope you are ok x

Again you are positively praising his behaviour, stop rewarding the stuff you dont want,

Forums such as dogsey are brill for info & fun but i think they can also put alot of pressure on peeps to have a perfect dog.

Hell who wants a perfect dog anyway????

Not me i love mine quirky ways & indivuality & expressiveness.

Take a step back & relax!! woody will learn to relax from you.

If you are all : ",try this, do this, woody woody woody, no, yes ,stop, play ,play with this what about this,try this then"

this is why hes like he is imo.
Hes frustrated because he dosent understand.

Obvisley without seeing him ,its very difficult, but his is the impression i get from your posts etc, dont get me wrong i think you are both fantastic just really need a good think & let it happen naturally!

Excellent post. I have found this, as suggested in this post, that although you get lots of fab info on Dogsey, it tends to make you feel sometimes that if your dog isn't perfect, you've somehow failed. Like the time somebody basically said that Pebbles was a problem dog because she can bark at strange dogs when out (she has done this since she was attacked as a pup). She's not a problem dog. She's a fabulously well-behaved dog apart from this. I accept that she isn't perfect and try not to put her into a situation where she will be faced with strange dogs but, when it happens, I deal with it. Woody, I think, just has heaps of energy and I think with the right guidance (that you are already giving him) and the training, he will be a wonderful dog once the hormones have settled down and he's not a "teenager" anymore

Just try to relax a bit more and I think he'll relax with you

I also feel 2, 4hr sessions a day, 3 times a week is way too much for a frustrated young working breed. Thats 8hrs, plus sleeping at night, its no wonder he's looking for stuff to do.

Its not meant as a critisism, but I do find it difficult to understand why a dog "behaviourist" would condone this.

Probably because the alternative is to re-home him and being an animal behaviourist for a re-homing centre he's probably doing the sensible thing and trying to work out a solution rather than just quit straight away.

Look, I appreciate all the advice and help but we are seeking professional help and are working on the issues. So far the past few days have been brilliant so it's not un solvable it will just take time. My post was about my patience with it all, not what to do with him. We'll get there, I know we will ;o)