I use a 'down' command but it takes time to proof it everywhere and you need to get it in (like the recall) before the dog gets beyond it. I think you probably have a slightly bigger window though----becasue the dog doesn't have to turn around and come back but can drop facing the object of desire!

The challenge then is to get there before the dog decides to move---hence my post van episode!

rune

Yep, and just to add to this there is no reason you cannot teach a down AND a recall at the same time ie in the same session, still using food as the reinforcer, and feed IN position ie when the dog is in the DOWN, if he gets up, do not feed until he gets down again.

Training the down can be done at home really well and shaped until it is really fast, again using food before going outside and if you get it whilst the dog is stationary whilst you are NEXT to him, you can practise getting it at a distance with the dog tethered say to a tree so he cannot move towards or away from you.

Distance is another variable that has to be trained, so once you got the dog going down at home regulary, and then in the garden and then outside (few distractions) you can then progress to distance (in your particular case).

As the picture for the dog is different (ie next to you and away from you).

Think of it as another "WMD" (Weapon for manipulating Dexter"

Totaly agree, anyone who has ever had a dog in their life will see that routine is what they like more than anything, their whole body and mind is built around a daily routine which in turn helps their inner self to be assured and confident and happy, and surely that is what responsible dog ownership is all about. It is not about transfering some two legged human ambition onto a four legged canine.

So would you say police dogs, SAR dogs etc are not self assured, confident and happy?

Because they do not have set ROUTINES necessarily?

In fact routine can lead to a dog that is totally unable to handle change.

It can lead to a dog that is unable to cope in different environments and circumstances.

This is what we call "institutionalisation" in both animals and humans.

When living beings have grown up in very rigid environments and are exercised in the same place, fed at the same time.

Take them out of those environments and they can find it very difficult to cope.

Some of the most confident and self assured dogs I see are those that travel with their owners (LGV drivers, vets, dog trainers, etc) as they take everything in their stride!

There are some individuals who thrive on rigid routines and can cope with change, there are those who thrive on change and get bored and restless with routine!

As always, it is KNOW YOUR DOG, and has absolutely nothing to do with any "ambition" of the owner!

IT is what responsible dog ownership is all about!

I actively try not to have a routinue with the dogs. I Personally feel dogd do not benefit from one. O/T i may start a new thread

Same here.

If the dog is only getting fed his portions in the park, after running back and forth from the owner, gobbling the food while most likely panting and is getting a full days rations in one go, is that really healthy for the dog? Are there not risks of bloat and what not?
I would much prefer to hear that the dog is being taken out more than just once a day so these 'meals' are smaller and less likely to cause problems in that area (maybe my knowledge on the causes are wrong but to me seems very risky). I'd still be doing lots of recall in the house and garden throughout the day and rewarding with bits of his daily ration as well, just to build on it. Also add in some yummy treats for really good recalls, extra's like liver (or liver cake) cheese, chicken or whatever when out and about.
Try other kinds on training when out and about too, it's amazing how much more focused they can become when you ask for a few familiar tricks and give lots of scrummy treats and love. I know it works really well with my Cookie, and had good responses from other dogs from training class too.
I can honestly say that if the dog is set up right and the training is done to steadily increase the dogs level then the dog will not be starved. The distractions should be slowly added, eg recall in an empty park, recall when someone is in the distance, recall when someone is closer, recall when dog is in the distance but the distance needs to be gradually reduced, maybe Dex runs to dogs when they are 100ft away, so start with them 150ft away so he learns that coming away does = food then maybe 5ft less each time.
I like to be quite harsh with myself and think that if Cookie doesn't do something it is not him who is in the wrong, I haven't trained it properly or asked him to do something which he is able/willing enough to do, therefore I need to change what I do (training) so he is able/willing to understand and do.

I have no particular experience in this and haven't read all your threads on the cheeky sounding Dexter
but I also recently read about the emergency command. This is basically where you use a word before something very exciting, so say the word - then feed his dinner, or make a massive fuss etc. Build the word up over a time period of around 2 weeks, and make sure it is the most wonderful thing!

I use a whistle as my emergency word, as I think the sound of my boring voice, is not very loud or interesting to my dog when she is off chasing rabbits in the park, or about to do something dangerous like approach the deer.
I find the whistle helps as it's very loud and really seems to grab attention - I try not to use it too much. Don't know if this is something you have tried?

Also (and this looks very silly) hiding behind a tree, crounching in bracken, or lying on the floor helps, as it becomes a - find where the whistle is coming from, then get a MASSIVE reward game! I have had 100% success with this, in situations where my normal recall has failed -(which I realise means its not good enough ).

I know Dex is very dog motivated so don't know whether this is interesting enough! Does he not worry when he can't see you? This is why hiding helps for me.

This may sound weird but since he is so dog obsessed, could you make his reward /be/ playing with other dogs or going to check them out?

The only way I can think of how it might work in practice is if there is another dog in another room or behind your or whatnot. You call to him and only if he runs to you and sits are you feet do you let him go sniff at the dog.

It seems to me that his big motivator is other dogs so why not use that as his reward system? I am sure there is a better way of rewarding him with 'other dogs' than the one I've stated above but that's the first thing that popped into mind.

Same here.