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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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08-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker 
you may be right, i should have better things to do really.
i can honestly say i wrote in the spirit of calm objective analysis, which is often my style on here.
im sure it doesnt make me popular at times (although i get just as many rep points as critiques for my approach).
what i wrote and what i questioned is exactly what i meant and do still mean, and i did say with the best of respects, but apologies if it came over harsh.
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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08-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Did some work on recall with an e collar then intro other dogs (mine) as long as the dog wasn't displaying aggression I had the owners praise and food reward their dog, if he was aggressive they called him, moved away and I enforced the call with the collar. This only had to be done two or three times!
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I agree he is a bit submissive in the vids but considering what had happened to him over the past few weeks (e;g going from one type of behaviour to another) he was doing great.
He's called Jacca not Jack. With regards to his body language in the vids, Whe I give the release command he waits to launch (playfully) at the other dog if he comes towards him. When Harvey (bc) gets out of the water I call him to help show him to move awya froma dog and not crowd it. Considering his past I wanted him to get into the habit of moving away from someone coming into his space, once again this is a big change for a dog who has always chased threats away.
Adam
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
They're all of Jacca (he's in the one about e collars too).
He is highly ball orientated and I use a squeaky ball as a reinforcer. When he thinks about the ball he goes into stalking behaviour (maybe he's got collie in him) which is why his body language is like that. He slinks around as soon as you show him a ball ect as he is in drive straight away (he rocks at aglity). Because I use the ball as the reinforcer for all the training when doing commands he tends to be very slinky as he anticaptes being in drive after the ball.
Adam
I have come to the conclusion you are all technicality and no substance or to put it in northern parlance 'all fur coat and no knickers'. You know the technical terms for dog training but in reality you know very little about dogs and nothing about their body languge. Tell me do you actually charge people for your services?
I know very little about the technicalities of dog training and but then I don't profess to be a dog trainer, I am just someone who has worked with dogs for many many years but I do know when a dog is scared and confused.
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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08-11-2010, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker
you may be right, i should have better things to do really.
i can honestly say i wrote in the spirit of calm objective analysis, which is often my style on here.
im sure it doesnt make me popular at times (although i get just as many rep points as critiques for my approach).
what i wrote and what i questioned is exactly what i meant and do still mean, and i did say with the best of respects, but apologies if it came over harsh.
why don't you stop being an intellectual pedant for a bit . As someone I personally admire as a trainer why are you wasting your time with such trivialities, why aren't you watching Adam's video and giving us all the benefit of your considered opinion!
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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08-11-2010, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by rune
The JRT was worried all the time. He isn't sure of what is wanted---he was in a down and you released him and he had no idea what you meant, when he eventually broke he won't have linked it with the release command.
His recall is not a happy one, he isn't wagging just stressing.
You sound like Denis---strangely!
rune
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Rune do you know I thought exactly the same thing but the accent is different .
Having watched the video I would say very much the same 'persona' too...
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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08-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by rune
Feeding Adam actually works well, as it does with the other e collar users who frequent the net.
It has certainly worked in this case!
rune
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Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
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08-11-2010, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
that`s fine - but at the end of the day it`s just your opinion.
albeit they are also fair questions of protocol, then logic.
as in, whats wrong with having a thread under the dogsey rule?
and if one is indulging the 'wrong person' by by adding to the thread, isnt one doing so by posting that very comment?
dichotomies.....tricky ******s, arent they
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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08-11-2010, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker
never said it wasnt
albeit they are also fair questions of protocol, then logic.
as in, whats wrong with having a thread under the dogsey rule?
and if one is indulging the 'wrong person' by by adding to the thread, isnt one doing so by posting that very comment?
dichotomies.....tricky ******s, arent they
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Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
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08-11-2010, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
For heavens sake KW
why don't you stop being an intellectual pedant for a bit . As someone I personally admire as a trainer why are you wasting your time with such trivialities, why aren't you watching Adam's video and giving us all the benefit of your considered opinion!
ive alwasy commented on adams training and spend a huge amount of time posting on training threads anyway.
the question should be; why am i wasting soooooooo much of my time on the internet and watching telly in general
its an addiction. i would argue it can all fall under the description of trivial in the wider scheme of things, but thats another discussion.
besides, i just dont agree with you. in the argument to oppose the abuse of e collar training, i just dont agree it is acceptable to either try and stifle discussion or resort to personal insult, regardless of the person directed at.
as it undermines people like wilbar and wys, for example, whom put forward a good case, as e collar trainers can then turn around and say their opponesnts haveno rational credibility.
also, it just makes anti collar folk sound the same as some of the more barmy excessive e collar trainers whom post in the same manner on forums as well.
and im being deadly serious, i mean exactly what i say
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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08-11-2010, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Adam I note you have three videos..
..look at this one also Jack I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDl5e25oKpk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
look at the dogs body language, the set of the tail, the expression ,the body posture , it all spells fear and uncertainty to me . I have seen it before on dogs who have been subject to e collars they are wary all the time
When a normal happy dog is walking its whole body is 'animated'. I don't think you did this dog any favours rescuing it, what a miserable existence for a little terrier living in fear all the time . Presumably this poor little dog is the one you were eager to demonstrate your 'skills' on (see post 25)to anyone prepared to watch
ETA I'm off to walk my dog before I say something I shouldn't!
Watching that made me very sad
If that was the only alternative for Mia I would prefer her a limitied life muzzled and on the lead but only stressed when other dogs are about - rather than a lifetime of being 'fixed' but cowed
But thankfully it isnt the only way to train a about to be pts dog with agression issues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFRPlsb-ipM
again not the best vid in the world, from earlier on with my two so I was using high rates of reward to help Mia overcome her food agression issues - as you can see she is happily watching Ben eating. and keeping it v calm and simple because one dog waiting while the other worked was new to them - and especially Ben gets to excited and wants to join in - or gets excited barks
they work exactly the same without food in my hand - I was just holding it so I could give lots of rewards (before anyone says my dogs are just working for bribary)
I hope you agree they are happy to be playing tricks with me