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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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Originally Posted by
scarter
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The trouble is (From my point of view) is that those that speak out against it don't seem to know much about actually using it. They might have lots of knowledge of how they can be missused but few know much about how they are used succesfully. Like you they assume but they don't have any real knowledge of the subject.
Er, not sure what to make of this
Why do you imagine I am assuming? and do not have any real knowedge of the subject? The only thing i've not actually done is to train a dog with an ecollar, but to be honest all that would do is give me the mechanical skill - not any more actual knowledge.
I'm not an "expert" but I have researched fully using both scientific papers and videos, talking to those on both sides who have used them and other research. I've done my research very thoroughly, even going back to finding odd obscure bits of info from years back, to more recent times with modern collars.
One of the most interesting things I found is that if I criticised any video, a few days later it would be removed from Youtube, the dodgy bit taken out (ie the bit that I spied that showed a dog walking with what I call "the ecollar walk") and put back on again, edited. Now if that doesn't say something, what does?
It seems almost impossible, yet my Beagles in full flight most definately CAN be stopped by something that's not painful - we have an emergency recall that will have them turn on a sixpence and come back to us.
Yes, but that's been conditioned as a command that has been trained ... ecollars aren't used that way. They are used in one of two ways usually. Now, you could probably pair a very mild lowest level shock/stim with a command, and then
just use the stimulus, but then you may as well use a whistle!
And that's not what was done from what you've described.
The theory behind our dog's emergency recall is that because of the way it's been trained the dog doesn't think - the response becomes hardwired and it will cut through anything.
Agree,
except that the term "hardwired" tends to refer to innate/instinctive behaviours such as the predatory sequence.
I haven't found out much about the training approach used with the e-collar but from what I have been told you're very wrong if you think it's just a matter of zapping the dog when it does wrong.
LOL, that is
one technique and is used most often in for example sheep chasing. There is another technique but then the way you've described it still soundsmore like the first one was used. The second uses a lower level (well, some use it lower level, but many do not!) shock which is on until the dog learns to turn it off. I have to say this I dislike more than the previous method.
I have felt this and I would describe it as more of a tickle. It makes you jump but doesn't hurt.
There are a huge number of makes and models. It's just possible you felt one on a low level (do you recall what the level was and how many there were?). Or that the collar you were exposed to was for some reason not one that can be turned up much (unusual).
I research things properly before making a decision.
If you find out that dogs can be trained by ecollars and not be hurt, let me know and please film it all! Seriously
Wys
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