then maybe what you (as a breed) need to challenge is the breed standard! If the KC are as serious about health as the say they are!

committee members, and KC members are already on to it- not changing the standard for sure, but talking about whats the best next step forward..

I was going to ask here if the dog would be marked down if the tufts were left - ie if it was just a 'look' thing or if it was going to be part of the judging - I guess that was answered below

Yup sounds like it thankyou

So its cheeting but everyone does it so shouldnt something be done? like changing the breed standard? or how the judging is doen?

Yes I hate gluing ears and all the things that go on there, puppies ears should be left how nature intended, if it is a big deal then they shouldnt be being bred from - if its not a big deal then show them as they are
Its the same dog - if they are not to breed standard then a bit of glue oe 10 min with a clipper suddenly makes them breed standard then something is wrong
imo that is a bigger issue than hairspray on a poodle - although I dont like the idea of it either

Please dont it is v interesting

That is intersting - wouldnt it be better then if the breed standard/judging was eased up on the hairyness of the dog and more focused on the teeth and back ends? As I am sure noone would disagree that a few tufts of hair are nowhere as important as the other issues

It is interesting how breeding for one thing affects so many other things
So would you say the 'best' dogs are likely to have had to have more hair shaved than the less good dogs?

The KC and committee members are working with each other to see what will be done..

I stand inbetween because I love to see a true hairless, and I know of some with good conformation, and dention at an open show, But on the whole alot of true hairless wouldnt do well in the ring. I like the inbetweeny dog, not alot of funishings, not alot of body hair but good conformation. All judges are different and will pick on 'their opinion of the breed'.

I know of someone that showed an unshaved hairless, she took first in her class, best puppy and the group. she has the truer hairless but still has body fuzz.

a dog would never be placed with tufts on it. i seriously doubt it anyway.

yes something should be done with the breed standard, and how judging is done, its not done properly at the best of times! one of the things with showing its not always the dog thats being judged with some people, but who is on the other end of the lead

thats another thing with our standard, hairless have to have their ears up. i wont deny i taped asbos to get his up, its just strengthened the muscle at the top. if the standard said either up or down id leave them, daphs are down but hers are allowed because shes a powderpuff.

i think that the breed standard should ease up on hairyness, as its helped sort out other problems within the breed, but hairless dogs, have always had bits of unwanted hair.

i wouldnt say the best dogs have more hair than dogs that dont, because its all down to the judges interpretation, and like i said before its not always the dog being placed but the human. hope i answered them al

isn't that supporting the idea that dogs should be as natural as possible? because the judges notice that they haven't been altered and so can see the dog for how it should look?

which in turn is blowing your own argument out of the water

all judges are different though, it wasnt many years ago that puffs werent accepted at all, never mind in the ring, and some of the older judges wont place powderpuffs even now! but thats a whole other arguement to get into...

Yes thats supporting the natural look, the lady I talk of is working hard to maintain her off spring 'true to type'..

I havent got an argument to blow out the water, other than I see no issue with tuffs being removed to present in a tider way - unless you would like to tell me what my argument is?

you were saying before it should be all or nothing when it comes to prepare for showing (in support of your original post). wouldn't nothing include not shaving the excess tufts off CC's?

Exactly all or nothing..As some one was complaing about altering the coat in one way, yet was supportive of hand stripping.. I have no problem with a dog being presented in ANY way as long as the dog is not suffering.