I`ve been interested for some time in `training through play` - a method I`m sure we all do instinctively with our children. The article I quoted from talked about how Play encouraged the dog to search for the `right` solution (like clicker shaping I suppose) and also allowed them to satisfy their drives in a `safe` way.
It also focusses the training back to the dog! A lot of what I`ve read here about the alpha-type theory seems to aimed at changing the human`s behaviour and status. My aim in training a dog is to teach the dog, not to modify my own behaviour.

That is a lovely posting, Ben ! According to SE, if you want to be alpha male and alpha female to your dog, you should NEVER use physical violence, simply because alphas do not use physical violence. It is the betas, the beta enforcers, who will use muscle to keep control and order in the pack, so if, as alpha male or female, you hit your dog, then you are demonstrating to your dog that you are not alpha, you are a beta.

This is why hitting your dog doesn't work as a form of punishment or teaching method. And why OH was snarled at by Hal when OH smacked him across the muzzle when he tried to take a bone off Hal. It was the very worst thing he could have done, but we have all lost our tempers with our dogs if we are truthful at some time in our lives.

So do we Wys ! We have stayed in some lovely places, the UK is a beautiful place and now I no longer think its cool to have a suntan, I couldn't give a fig about the weather.

I think Ben has raised a very good point though. If, as hubby and I have done, you set yourselves up as alphas to your dog, then you could argue that it is cruel in the extreme to go away and leave them behind. Sometimes of course you have to, next week we have to go up to London to see a barrister and there is no way we can take Tai. We are leaving him for the day with my daughter, who he knows well and although he will be with her in her flat, not here at home, he will be fine I hope. Normally, one of us would have stayed behind to look after Tai, but we both need to be there unfortunately.

Good posting ClaireandDaisy. We watched a tv programme last night about police dogs, in particular the focus was on sniffer dogs. There was even a spaniel sniffer dog who had been trained to sniff out money - notes ! It was amazing. The reward for the dogs when they had sniffed out the treasure was to play with a yellow tennis ball. I thought this was lovely, and how much better a reward than to merely give the dog a titbit.

We play a lot with Tai. He particularly loves to chase sticks, and more than anything he loves to retrieve them from water, so every afternoon when we take him out for a bike ride in the woods, we stop off at a fast flowing shallow stream where there is a little wooden bridge, and we play Pooh Sticks for hours ! All the while we are biking round the woods, he is deviating off the path, crashing through the undergrowth to chase squirrels, another of his fave pastimes !

It's not all about control and obedience with us alphas you know !! If you saw how spoiled this dog is, you would call me a daft, soft old brush !!

I quite agree Wys ! But being alpha is NOT about dominance !! I do not dominate my dog !! I know you're joking, but I can't let that one go !!

Tai is the happiest dog I know, safe in the knowledge that hubby and I are in charge and he can relax and enjoy himself !

See my other posting !!

Yes, that is exactly how we live ! We can never leave Tai Home Alone, so we have to either take him with us or arrange for my daughter to dog sit, or for Tai to go to her flat and she looks after him there. I also have a very good riding friend who adores Tai and will come to our house and dog sit. These occasions are very very rare that both OH and I have to go somewhere together - eg, next week we both have to go up to London, so daughter is having Tai for the day.

With Hal, his SA was not so bad, we could leave him for the day Home Alone. However, we did it only on those very rare occasions when OH had to take our daughter back to school in Hampshire, or collect her, and it was too hot to take him. He hated being left, he had access through to the conservatory, where he would sit and howl mournfully apparently every 15 minutes or so until OH returned. He would touch neither water nor food until OH returned. The house was very cool, but the conservatory was not, so this was a real worry and on hot days OH would close the doors out to the conservatory, which Hal hated because he really liked to lie on the furniture out there !!

Wolfdogs are not pre-programmed with SA. It is just that because of their very recent wolf blood for want of a better phrase, their pack instinct is much higher than, say, with your average labrador. This can be one of the down sides of having a Utonagan, NI, Saarloos, Czech etc. Any responsible breeder of these animals should, IMO, not sell puppies to owners who are both out at work all day, or, if they are both out at work, then they must have at least 2 dogs as this helps with SA (it doesn't always though, when we had Woody with Hal, Hal's son, Woody still had bad SA and would destroy things, even though his father was there with him). As long as these factors are made clear to buyers, I personally don't think it is cruel to breed wolfdogs. OH is self-employed and works from home, and that will never change because at his age no-one would want to employ such an old fart !! I am currently "resting", but am looking out for temping work with the possibility of full time employment once gain. I was made redundant a year or so ago, and have been temping on and off ever since. This situation works very well and means that Tai never needs to be left alone.

If you are ever lucky enough to own wolfdogs Janie, you will see the point, believe me !! They are absolutely wonderful, they get under your skin like no other dog. I thought I would never love another dog again like I loved my bloodhound, Kim, but Hal was just truly amazing. Worth every sacrifice of no travelling abroad, no theatre, no restaurants, these are just confetti in the wind blown away into oblivion compared to having a dog like Hal.

True wolfdog, although I have met several very high %'s there, and one or two pures, all treated as normal "pets".

As wolf mad as I am, and as much as I would love to have a pure wolf, you just could not do that in this country because you would be killing your dog, it would not be fair. Very high %'s normal look like just that, so the onus would be on you to prove that it was an F3 or lower, and I would not want that hassle. If you had a pure wolf, ditto but worse. A pure wolf looks like a wolf, end of. At least with some high %'s they don't, or at least don't enough to be at risk of DEFRA.

But in Northern Ireland, well, therein lies possibility !

Did I use the word "domestic"? Sorry, not a good word, but I hate the word "tame" as it implies that wolves are dangerous wild animals, and they are not. Maybe well socialised to humans may be better? Your word "social" is good, I like that.

I don't know about David Mech or Eric Ziemen, but if they failed, there would be a number of reasons for this. The cub MUST be taken from the mother by 3 weeks, preferably before. In addition, the cub must be well socialised with humans, but IMO not at the expense of removing the aloofness, the natural reticence. Wolves are far, far cleverer than the most intelligent of dogs, you want them to not freak when they see a stranger, but neither do you want them to lose all wariness such that they think they can dominate another human because he is displaying weakness. If Mech and Ziemen managed to teach their wolves to lose ALL their natural wariness of humans, and at the same time did not themselves present to the wolves as pack leader, then very definitely they would be in trouble. As much as I will say to my dying breath that dogs are just domesticated wolves, you CANNOT treat a high % or a pure as you would an ordinary dog. Which is why they are very certainly not for most people.

And which is why I think the way the law stands at the moment in this country is probably sensible, anything with higher content than an F3 must have a DWA licence and be kept in an enclosure, simply because I don't believe you can legislate against people's stupidity.

I still haven't had a chance to follow up the links to David Mech et al, but doubtless this experience will come out during that process. I am not prevaricating, it is just there has been a lot on the tv of great interest ... last night's prog about police dogs, that South Pacific programme on Sunday was breathtaking, and then there was a brilliant programme covering the 60's and the 70's music and the history of the Blues !

The importance of early exposure is not a secret known only to hybrid fans. The importance of fear periods and imprinting has been known to biologists for well over 50 years. A world renowned wolf biologist would know enough about this fact to take appropriate action.