No CC - whether you like to see it or not - the majority of the 'antis' base thier conclusions on what they see in his programmes....otherwise we would not be having these arguments.

What we see in the programmes upsets us as it shows someone who uses physical force to subdue dogs....does he do this 24/7...no....but NO-ONE is saying that.

We do not clutch at straws - we present visual evidence that some people either ignore or do not know enough about canine body language to understand what the dog is saying. None of us know what goes on behind the scene so we have to go by what we see on the screen.

If you didn't have to pick up the pieces, there would be no need for your services, whether it be CM, the dogs owner or whoever else is at fault.

There will be a degree of failure from any trainer for whatever reason.

I just think it's unfair to label CM as this terrible trainer when clearly he has done a lot of good work.

No JB, his ethos is not to dominate. It is to 'be the pack leader' & there is a difference. He constantly preaches 'calm & assertiveness' & says he 'trains humans & rehabilitates dogs'. He does exactly what you say he doesn't, 'be firm, set boundaries & reward good behaviour'.

I appreciate he has used 'dominance' to deal with some cases, but only in some & he isn't constantly trying to get a dog to 'submit', he's trying to get the dog to a balanced state of mind.

The Dog Whisprer Show mainly focuses on 'problem dogs'. Those of that watch the program obviously don't feel the need to use methods that aren't appropriate for our dogs. If I have a problem (aggression, fear etc) then I'd seek out a qualified behaviorist to help me deal with it. I wouldn't expect a TV program, discussion forum or trainer to help me solve the problem.

The Dog Whisperer Show doesn't set out to show people how to teach their dogs tricks or commands. He doesn't present himself as a trainer. There are plenty of books, courses etc on obedience, clicker training, agility, heelwork to music etc for those of us that want to do these things with our dogs. Training dogs to do tricks is easy.

But the thing that I find to be completely lacking is good, sound advice on how to 'live' or 'behave' around your dog. You claim that it's what every trainer adheres to but Ceasar Millan is the only one that I've come across that has this important aspect at the core of his teaching - where it belongs! He presents it in a way that is clear and sensible. This is so valuable. To the typical dog owner that doesn't have serious problems with their dog this is the bit of the show that is relevant. And it's excellent in my opinion.

Pretty much all the classes I go to with my dogs (and the books that I read) are based upon 'reward the good and ignore the bad'. For the most part that's good. But I've found that you can go seriously wrong with this approach - partly because it's not comprehensive enough for all dogs, and partly because it rarely comes with any guidance on how to act around your dog. With certain dogs (my youngest for example) you can easily end up training your dog to be an obnoxious little hooligan!

The 'Tsst' or 'negative marker' works great with our boy. Our girl doesn't respond particularly well to it. And interestingly, on the Karen Pryor site I read that studies have shown that using a 'negative marker' can shut down some dogs and make them stop trying. With others it helps them to make good progress. So, we use it with our boy but not our girl. It's that simple.

Claiming space using body language is a god-send with both of our dogs. Much easier for them to understand and relate to than 'back', 'sit', 'wait', 'basket' or various other commands that we might use as an alternative to claim space for ourselves.

I originally rejected his ideas on not speaking to the dog, ignoring it, avoiding eye contact, not letting it go through doors first etc. I've recently had a change of heart! We tried the ignoring at the advice of our Agilty teacher (I wasn't convinced by her arguments either at first) and the transformation in both dogs was amazing. Our girl is fine going through doors first etc, but preventing the boy from doing that is calming him down and making him less stroppy. Talking to our dogs was stressing them. Particularly our girls. So we've stopped. We now use more body language and 'attitude' and less gob-sh*te! Our dogs are calmer and better behaved as a result. Boundaries now come before affection in our house - not because it makes things better for us (although it does), but because it makes our dogs better balanced and more content. Lots of people will thorise about why it works and many will argue endlessly over theories. But to me what matters is that it does work!

We've always been firm believers in exercising our dogs well. We didn't need to be told that one. However, in a day and age when so many dogs are fat, bored and unfit (the majority according to some surveys) a lot MORE people should be pushing home this message. It's one of the most important things yet so few dog experts stress it enough. It's first on CM's list - where it belongs in my opinion.

NO-ONE is saying they don't! People are saying that there are better and/or fairer ways of training dogs - even those 'red-zone' ones.

The ones that many use (you yourself even) are not HIS methods - they are recognised method that were being used a long time before CM came along. Its great that he uses these - BUT he ruins a lot of it by then using physical force to subdue the dogs.

Indeed - which is exactly why I dislike the programme - there is enough issues around without seeing 'experts' on the TV show them hows its done.



But it is my understanding he is not a trainer

I cannot say that he has clearly done a lot of good work becasue I have not seen it - as you obviously see the good witrh the people you meet - I see the bad.

i watched the pitbull episode today. where a couple had 2 pitbulls that they sent away for training (not with cm) and when the dogs returned they went from best friends to trying to kill each other.

it was one of the most harrowing episodes i have seen, mainly because of the amount of fighting clips that were used.

cm took the 'problem' dog with him for a couple of months. the clips did show a happy dog playing with the others and his method of starting her with young pups to change her aggression seemed like a good one.

a horribly distressing part was when the owners returned and the whole pack were together. the pitbull was very excited to see them and cm did warn that the dog was starting to display dominant behaviour. it errupted when she did start on another pitbull, amy, and many other dogs tried to join in.

i know some would say that the situation should never have been allowed to happen, and if the outcome were different i would agree.

cm offered to take the pitbull, trinity, in return for a calmer dog. the owners refused his offer.

trinity attacked again, just after the first time, when they were sitting in the trailer discussing what to do. this time daddy moved too close and she went for him.

amazingly the only dog that needed stitches was trinity.

the e-collar was used but no footage of its use was shown which i did find odd.

the end result was that the owners, despite all that had happened, were convinced they could work with trinity and get back their happy household.

the footage that was shown at the end of the show was proof that they did just that. their dogs were living in harmony again.

dogs have been destroyed for far less than what trinity did. to me that episode showed people working together to save a dogs life.

like i have said, i watch because i want to see for myself and when you see 2 pitbulls that were literally tearing each other apart, now drinking from the same tap and licking each others muzzles, something has to have been done right.

I have't seent he episode and i am sort of glad.
Has something good been done? A dog has attacked a few times...and been put in a situation that it should never have been put in. Do the ends therefore justify the means? Is it ok to put a dog into a situation where a fight breaks out a few times and use a shock collar on the dog?
My opinion is no absolutely not. There are other, less brutal ways to train a dog. My opinion. As i say I haven't seen that episode and from what you have described...I don't want to.

apologies ramble. i don't think i did a good job at describing it either. but for a dog who attacked her housemate and wasn't social with other dogs, she was playing with the pack moments before the attack happened. there is a possibility that it could have been prevented, but the dog hadn't attacked anyone for some time. it's so hard when all we have is what we are shown.

i do not condone the use of the shock collar or any of the other 'devices' cm uses. the footage that was shown did not include any of his 'dominating' methods aside from when the dog first arrived at his center and the mention of the shock collar.

i don't agree with a lot of his methods but my point was that some people would think that pitbull was out of control. i think the owners had a lot to do with the dog becoming calmer and losing her aggression. it looked like a true advert for the calm, assertive attitude.

the pitbull is now happy and with her family, i think that is a good outcome from what the initial situation was.