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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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22-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Malady 
I agree regarding people who breed purebreds, but that's to save money, and that's all they're in it for.
I really don't see what the point would be in spending all that money (it's not cheap) on health testing and researching the lines of your dogs to then simply crossbreed them. It simply doesn't make sense to do so, so like I said, I would like to know any breeder of crossbreeds that has bothered to do this, because really the research wouldnt make much difference, once you crossbreed. It's pointless.
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Location: no
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,912
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22-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by China
I have never come across any BYB that goes to the expense of making sure that their breeding stock is clear of all known diseases which their choosen breeds will have or even any idea what they are!
I agree here but will also point out that there is some register breeders who don't do the right thing but over all that is a very small amount thank god, compare to the BYB
not saying all BYB's are bad, only because someone will think this dog or that bitch would make great pups that is no reason for breeding, also if at any stage one of my pup/dog needs to come back to me it doesn't what age then it comes home these are some of the things a BYB wont do once the pup is gone from their yard so is the help
you cant mould them all into one pot!! tahts all im trying to say!
Originally Posted by Ramble
Fantastic post.
Exactly.
I say again, not all people who breed crosses are bad and not all the people who buy them are idiots with egos and big wallets.
I would buy the right crossbreed if it was the right time and from the right person. I would also get a rescue crossbreed, again if it was the right dog right time. I have a lot of experience of crossbreeds (first generation) and I like them,so I would happily get one.
There is a lot of snobbery in the breeding world and I do believe that people can breed crosses for the love of it, not just for money. There are people in pedigree dogs that have destroyed breeds and have no scruples whatsoever, there are people like that in everything. Just because people breed crosses, doesn't mean they are bad people.
Anyone buying a pup should check the lines out and check halth tests have been done, check the pups and how they have been raised.
Originally Posted by Ramble
My point is thought that that is a rather sweeeping generalisation and that not ALL people who breed crossbreeds are like that, just like not all people who breed purebred dogs are in it to further the breed.
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Location: U.K
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,977
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22-04-2008, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
My point is thought that that is a rather sweeeping generalisation and that not ALL people who breed crossbreeds are like that, just like not all people who breed purebred dogs are in it to further the breed.
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Location: Bedfordshire
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,143
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22-04-2008, 09:14 PM
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Location: away with the bullies
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,188
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23-04-2008, 03:55 AM
see to me a byb is someone who breed slots of dogs on every season with no health tests..... im talking about one person who brreds one litter a year from health tested parents....but there cross dogs! and yes they are out there! ther are labradoodle people that do this! & other cross breeders......
you cant mould them all into one pot!! tahts all im trying to say!
I'm not putting them in one pot as you call it, those lab x poodle breeders who are testing are doing it because they want the breed to be recon as a register breed and need to prove that those lines are clean for so many generanations but they will also have to come up with a name and not a mix names of the breeds they are using.
Ok for the next question you posed, the person that only breeds 1 litter a year from 2 different breeds(that is supposely tested) you would still have the problem of causing more health issues, we take our time and study our bloodlines and even more time studying the stud dog's and when we decide to breed it to improve the breed
How is crossing two different breeds improving it?, but my main concern is that what ever breed of dog someone has that its loved and very much part of the family
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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24-04-2008, 02:19 PM
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Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
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24-04-2008, 03:04 PM
Looks - there is no way to know what the end result will be in looks, size, coat etc etc and that with pups in the same litter as they can all end up different to each other as has been demonstrated.
Health tests : Its pointless saying `these are ok, they`ve been tested` because what is relevant for one breed may not be relevant for the other and far from eradicating a problem they can create new ones because of skeletal differences alone.
Poodle x Labs are a prime example, as a particular and very nasty Poodle disease is now in the Lab x Poodles be they F1 or F2 etc so they now need to be tested in their own right but of course most breeders don`t bother, they just assume, [ or claim ], that anything hereditary will be cancelled out because of crossing - it does`nt work that way for many health issues.
Lab x Poodles also have the same hip score average as Labs so they certainly have`nt `improved` anything there....
The health testing side is a complete misnomer, at a push its only really workable at all with Lab x Retriever which the Guide Dog association uses, [ which they do with extreme care and genuine knowledge ], and is only workable really because the skeletal types are so close, and they don`t just churn them out and sell off the ones which don`t make the grade, [ at least they keep any unsuited-to-working dogs in-house without adding to rescue problems ], but put two physically less similar breeds together and any health testing is just not valid no matter how much the designer breeders try to claim it makes them `ethical`.
If their dogs were genuinely good enough to breed from they would be using them to further that breed, not crossing them, so any which have been health tested, that says to me that the results were just not good enough and / or the adult dog not a good enough example of its own breed to be used for that breed so they are recouping by churning out crosses, [ collectively churning out I mean, one litter a year is as bad as 20 a year from a puppy farm imo, because they are not bettering anything, they are just adding to the homeless dog situation ].
The fact is, these designer breeders are not creating a new breed, they are not putting in the 20 years plus that it takes to breed to type etc, they are just churning out crosses, giving them stupid pointless names to make them sound like a `breed`, and are conning people about them, end of.
At least if people get a rescue crossbreed they will have some idea what they are getting because of temperament testing, most being full grown or near to it, and giving a home to a dog which needs it, rather than lining the pockets of designer breeders who are mostly responsible for those same crossbreeds, [ but without the stupid names ], being in rescue`s in the first place - and why are there so many in rescue`s aside from the `accidental` litters which people allow to happen time after time ?
Because designer breeders have sold to people who did`nt know what they were taking on, who did`nt make sure the buyers were prepared and able to cope should their crossbreed show the worst traits of both breeds used, or the cute pup did`nt grow up anything like they were expecting, and the breeders did`nt give a hoot about anything other than taking the money from the naive.
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Location: Somewhere
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,087
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24-04-2008, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Pita
Because they are more interested in their self-image than in owning the dog. It is what the dog says to others that is important to them not what they can give and receive from a dog in their mutual life together.
They are also the type of people who are 'fair weather walkers'. In a few years or months, the rescue centres will be full of labradoodles, pug-chis, jackapoos and the like.
I don't understand why they are called designer dogs. Can you get them with 'Valentino' or 'Gucci' stamped on their bums?
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Location: Preesall, Lancashire
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,622
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24-04-2008, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27
I don't understand why they are called designer dogs. Can you get them with 'Valentino' or 'Gucci' stamped on their bums?
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Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
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24-04-2008, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27
In a few years or months, the rescue centres will be full of labradoodles, pug-chis, jackapoos and the like.
My rescued Lab x Poodle passed away in 1999, and my youngest rescue is a BC x JRT, a mix which is being peddled as `Borderjacks` mainly for the agility circuit in the US but I fear is increasing in UK as well to create Medium sized dogs with high brain power, [ in theory ], as its the least populated size category so gives the pothunters more chance, at least that`s what they probably think it will give them.
edited to add, yes as most here are aware I do agility, however I adopted my shrimp because she`s deaf, not because of any agility prospects, and I had`nt even set eyes on her prior to going to collect her initially to foster, so I had no idea what she looked like or her size etc and she was only 5 months old at the time so I had no expectations about her, all that mattered was experience with deaf dogs, [ especially previously abused and deaf ], and knowledge and experience of BC and JRT traits should she have them in any predominance / level, just want to make it clear I don`t fall for the `bred for agility or anything else` type claims being touted for her crossing.