I personally use titbits when they are young to train them with the clicker.. i.e. click and treat, but when they learn what I want, the treat is stopped and only given when teaching new things.

My dogs are also trained using rewards
They have learnt that good behaviours cause food to come, and that pestering for food gets nothing
Mia had so many issues that she has really had to work hard for everything, and the interesting thing that has come from that is now if Ben has a bone or something and she really wants it she has learnt that trying to take it is not going to work for her but she offers Ben tricks in the hope that he will 'reward' her with his bone - so cute

I have found that the chance that anytime they MIGHT get a treat for really good behaviour means they dont bug me for treats, sure if I just gave them out when I had the treat bag and just for nothing then they might bug me

I can see why your asking Wys, about ''needed to take food away'', but can I say we have had to train ours with that, incase Foster Children who come here, have no respect (not that I am saying Pidge needed to) but to anyone who ''has to'' I think you also have to know the dog is being asked ''alot of'' and it is a difficult thing for a dog to understand. Hands in dishes etc., after all I wouldn't like someones hand in my dish. Even though I've had to comply in getting mine to understand....poor mutts.

The behaviourist I used was from Gwen Bailey's Puppy School! Can't fault her.. very very good!!

Jackbox : I have always fed my dog once a day, at night. Every dog I have ever owned, and every dog my parents ever owned, was fed in the same way. Dogs and wolves in the wild do not have the luxury of even one meal a day, let alone two ! They can go up to two weeks without a meal ! And they have survived for millions of years, so I don't think I can be going too far wrong, do you ?

Who said anything about backing a dog into a corner ? I know you are speaking metaphorically, but the dog has a choice - the choice is he puts him bum and the ground and waits patiently, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he is going to have to wait a longer time than if he obeys.

You raised a human analogy. Well, when I was little we had to wait at the table until my parents were seated and Grace had been said before we could eat. This process could take several minutes, and I can remember how difficult it was not to pick at something on my plate ! But, out of respect for my parents, wait I jolly well did. Even when my parents were not in the room, we would not have dreamed of having a crafty nibble.

I am not advocating picking up the bowl, I am merely advocating good discipline and respect. Until I tell my dog he can eat, that food is MY food and he cannot touch it.

Incidentally, an added advantage to this discipline is that if and when my dog picks up something I don't want him to eat - a good example was a manky and disgusting looking old kipper lying out in the field the other day - I can stop him. The kipper was bviously scavanged from someone's rubbish by a fox. Tai picked it up, and actually started to eat it before I caught on. In mid-mastication, he instantly dropped it on my Leave command.

He is totally trustworthy with food left around in the house too, eg at barbecues, dinner parties etc. when we have moved inside or away from the table.

I totally agree, we must be able to take things off our dogs, when we see the need, and for many it is not an issue, but for what ever reasons we find ourselves with "resource guarding issues , we have to deal with it differently..

And my point is.. if you have a dog with these tendencies , you cant explain that there is food a plenty.

He will be focused on the one in his moment... and by making him wait and blocking him form his ONLY source of nutrition... you are likely to enhance his possessive tendencies ... because .. he ain't going to give it up without a fight.

Ofcaurse we all want the same things.. a well mannered dog , and we achieve this with hard work.. sometime sit is easy as the dog will never show any tendencies to resource gaurd.. those that do need a different approach.

And in the end we all have what we want.. a well mannered dog

I think there is a difference between teaching a good Leave command, and giving and then taking away a dogs` dinner. There`s nothing wrong with teaching the family to leave the dog alone when eating. You`d also teach children not to approach a horse from the rear or to grab a cat - for similar reasons of safety.
Personally I think fussing about with a dog`s food is just turning it into a big issue and encourages the dog to be anxious round food.
I shall now duck!
Bear in mind though, that all dogs are different, and so are all households. I`ve only posted my own opinions which are based purely on my own experiences and not backed up by any scientific studies and can therefore be noted or discarded as wished.

I have had dogs all the time when my children were growing up and the children were taught to leave the dogs in peace when they were eating. They occasionally fed the dogs for me which included making them sit and wait briefly before they could eat. We occasionally add some leftover meat or veg to the bowl when the dogs are eating so they see us touching their food as a positive thing. As far as chews are concerned Ollie like nothing better than to have someone hold his chew and give him a cuddle while he works on the other end. He picked that up when he was wearing a buster collar post castration and still does it.

O God, I've got to go guys, OH is on the prowl getting really pooey because I'm not working ! This will be my last post for the moment :

You are absolutely right, Jackbox, dogs live in the here and now, they have no sense of past or present. Which surely enforces my argument, that they must be taught good manners and my way is to make them sit, wait and Trust, until I tell them they can eat. Obviously with that little pup I had who definitely was showing the signs of becoming food aggressive, I started off not making him wait for any more than a second. And to be fair and honest, I don't think I ever managed a longer Trust than 3 or 4 seconds, but I believe I managed to nip what was looking like it was going to turn into a serious problem neatly in the bud.

Don't get me going on the "dogs are domesticated wolves", else we'll have this thread locked up tighter than a drum for going off thread, but as a believer in just that, I will not be dissuaded from feeding my "wolf" once a day ! It is natural, and in fact, if I wanted to be a purist, I should even starve him one day a week to give his digestion a rest. I don't want to be a purist, so I won't do this, but I know people who do.

I'm really enjoying this debate, but I've got to go guys, but I'll come on again later.

I'm one of the lucky ones too, but quite honestly I don't know WHY this is, I have never done anything out of the norm, just dished up their food, plonked it in bowls and put it down in front of them, side by side, always together, and even when my rescue dog (who is on a strict diet and is ravenous!!) has gulped his down, he just wouldn't dare touch the puppy's food and she doesn't touch his, it just happens. It's probably like so many others have said on here, because I have never made an issue out of food, they know they'll get it at exactly the same times each day, the same size portions, followed by a raw carrot which they head straight to the fridge for after their dinner, it all just slots into place?

Even when I first rescued my Georgie and I already had my other gsd, it never crossed my mind that he would go for her/her food or go to attack me if I moved his bowl, added some food, or maybe took his big marrowbone away from him, and I think the mere fact that it DIDN'T cross my mind has probably been the reason why I don't have a problem in all honesty???!!

If ever I had a dog who gave me the slightest incling that he might just not let me touch his food/the bowl/his bone whatever, then I'd give him a quick, loud "oi" and just go ahead and DO it, but then that's me coz like I said, because I have never had any issues, is the reason I CAN do this maybe?

If I was looking after sombody else's dog say, who was food aggressive/(ish), I suppose I would feed him by hand with the bowl on the table next to ME, coz it's MY food isn't it, until he learned that if I am the one who gives it to him, then I can also take it away if I wanted, which I would also never, ever do, I never see the point in that! The way we learned this at training was to approach the dog with something a lot nicer than he had, and that way, the dog learns that whenever you approach when he has food, then you've always got something better on offer and when you haven't, well, he's just used to you doing that by then isn't he

Even if I spill a bit from the worktop, even a bit of fresh chicken perhaps, let alone a boring old bit of kibble, I noticed that Zena never ever goes to take it off the floor, so why is that then, coz I certainly have never said "leave it" coz she's never given me reason to do that even the first time I dropped something? I think I know why it is though, I'm absolutely sure, it's down to the fact that food is never an issue, on 4 square meals a day they probably never get hungry enough around here to BE food aggressive, they might have a lot of respect for me (one can always hope! Lol!)food is always done at the same times in the same way, and in the same place, and I'm always adding bits, sometimes with pills in, or something a bit nice coz I've forgotten to put it in, or moving bowls if they're on top of each other, spreading Georgie's out a tad on the place coz he eats like a dustcart, etc. etc. I'm BUSY with them around their food, I stroke them too, always have been and maybe that's the reason I don't know, but I strongly suspect with any dog that might be giving you a warning or suchlike, it then becomes an issue, body language and hesitation kicks in and you might end up with a problem, a big problem sometimes when you have a big dog! Hope some bits in there might have helped, I do tend to ramble on a bit