no i wouldnt... but if i wasnt there, i certainly wouldnt force them to be outside for up to nine hours a day!

when i am in with Jake, the door is usually left open (depends on the weather, but Jake wont go out in the garden when it rains anyway) so he can decide where he wants to go. i dont force him to be inside, but i would also never force him to be outside. also, even if the door is shut, Jake knows to tell me he wants out.

also, who mentioned anything about sitting on the sofa and being smothered 24/7

Originally Posted by JaniceH
What worries me a little when I read posts like this, is that the OP asks a question, then when its replied to in a different way to 'oh poor you' (after all everyone is perfectly entitled to a different opinion) then the OP replies in such an agressive way I actually wince as Im reading it!

By Krusewalkerwhat aggression?

i do wince when im reading about people that are reading into things that arent really there

Actually I found the way that the OP wrote this below towards JackBox quite confrontational and unecessary:

Quotes by the OP - Oh dear, people like you make me tired...

Did i now, said that this happened everyday did i...let me have a look-see...no, no i did not.

I gave a worst case scenario, i deal with the legal in my job and had i mentioned a shorter period and someone like you (obviously with an axe to grind)?? established that longer periods of time exist, well, we know exactly what the reaction would be.

*hand to forehead* (i cannot believe that i am repeating and elaborating on such a simple sentence)

Well, that is your opinion. Please raise it in another thread if you feel so strongly about the matter. I appreciate that you are trying to tell me what i am doing wrong, but what you are telling me is based on your own beliefs and has little/no backing, unless you have some authoritative paperwork you care to point me in the direction of that limits the time a dog/s may be left outside with food / water / shelter / safety?

I truly am thankful that i do not live next to you.!

But heyho, tell you what, let us see what the officials have to say about the matter, we can throw opinions around this thread all day long if it helps you to feel better, but i am certain that no issues will be highlighted, primarily because none exist (oops there goes another opinion) but we'll see what they say when they get here, after all, they are the educated and certified people in this field, not you or I.

Thanks for the help


Nice Eh!

The OP actually stated and the thread is entitled 'advice please' I wouldnt consider that sort of reply to some advice given to be either polite or helpful.

By Krusewalker - if its not described, we dont have to assume anything.
however, we can always ask questions

We have already found out how the dogs are living by asking the OP direct questions, these quotes are all cut and paste directly so I can hardly say that I am assuming much really. Ive also read some of the OP's other posts and both of these dogs are actually pups less than a year old.

The dogs are kept outside say 8am - 4/5pm with ample garden space, two kennels, two food bowls (filled in AM & PM) one huge water bowl and the poo is cleaned up from the garden every evening without fail.


So their food is given to them in the garden, they have no back up plan should their water spill, do they have any toys, anything to play with occupy themselves? We mustnt forget that we are talking about a SBT and a Lab x, breeds that have a single short coat that will if it rains eventually get soaked when it rains.

This was then changed to:
Monday: 9-4
• Tuesday: 12:30-5
• Wednesday: 10-5
• Thursday: 8-5
• Friday: 10-3[/I]
As someone worked out, this equates to 30.5 hours completely on their own during the working week, outside.


No-one can get home at lunchtime as we both work over 45 mins drive away (in one direction).

I am installing a camera to cover the rear of the property, and i am raising the walls (already 6ft high) to approx 7/8ft, and will be installing a decent gate as soon as i get the time. (having looked at pics already posted by the op, its a wrought iron railing type gate which looks like it directly opens onto some kind of footpath, pavement?) Passers by would be able to look directly at the dogs.

they think of people (when they're in the back garden) as pure enemies, can be quite unnerving.

two dogs outside doing what dogs do for 8 hours when left alone

They enjoy regular play fights and like to see who can lay on the spot the other one likes best just to provoke a chase, quite entertaining.

it could be possible that someone passing by caught a glimpse of the "i'm sad and lonely and should be on a PDSA advert" stare one day whilst the dogs were out in the garden. The garden is currently a pathway, a patio, a circle of grass maybe 8ft diameter, and mud..
TBH if my neighbours had this sort of set up, two dogs that were outside all day in mud for extended periods, that think of people as enemies, that were getting wet and very dirty, doing what dogs do' I would also be extremely concerned about them, and I would rather report my concerns in confidence than risk that sort of confrontational conversation face to face.

Edited to say:
This is the document for the Animal Welfare Act for dogs http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pet...s/cop-dogs.pdf

Look on page 5, particularly:
If your dog lives outside, it will need protection from adverse weather or other threats.
All dogs must be able to avoid things that frighten them and need a place
to hide where they feel safe.
Dogs are vulnerable to heat stress. In hot weather they rapidly become distressed in enclosed areas such as conservatories, cars and outdoor kennels.
Provide your dog with a comfortable, clean, dry,quiet, draught-free rest area.
If your dog is kept in a kennel, or tethered, you should check it frequently and ensure it is not in danger or distressed.
Make sure that any place you leave your dog is large enough to ensure, at all times, a comfortable area with effective ventilation and temperature control, and that your dog is able to move around to ensure its comfort, avoiding
becoming too hot or too cold.
Do not leave your dog unattended in any situation, or for any period of time that is likely to cause it distress.

Agree. Good post x

Some people don't feel comfortable doing this. I've recently had to let my neighbours know that their dog is clearly having separation issues when they leave her for a night out (she's with someone all day). It was really awkward and I felt like a sticky beak, but I couldn't ignore her crying for hours on the rare occasion they pop out for the evening and have given them some suggestions to ease it. I have no idea if she was grateful or not, but things do seem better. I still don't feel it was my 'right' to do it though.

Of course not. It depends on the dog/s of course and what they are used to when the owner is home.

Woody chooses to spend all his time indoors with us on the ''sofa being smothered 24/7''. He's a very cuddly dog, but is allowed to go where he likes in the house and in the garden when he asks to. He has his own spaces that he goes to for quiet time and we have never made him come to us if he's in them! I know for a fact though that he would NOT like to be left outside, all day on his own. He's a very people breed though and needs human companionship.

As do staffys which I think might be the problem here. Not sure what the other breed OP has but I know for a fact the staffy will be really missing human companionship during the day.

Assumption makes an ass out of u and me
Like i said, lots of assumption, lost of extrapolations which arent necessarily true, nor particularly expressed constructively or could have been delivered thru much more straightforward questionning.
Of course, one does not do this if one is already coming from a POV which is anti an entire standpoint to begin with (in this case, dogs living outside).
For that reason, it makes sense for biased people to express themselves using bias, not examination and judgementality, as their leading inspiration.
Bias dressed up as 'honest opinion' is so transparent, and thus, a lot more wincing to see.

Wilbar seemed to have concerns with the outdoor lifestyle, but is a measured and reasonable enough person to check herself to make sure she does not let that carry her away from her good mannered people skills and always tries to avoid judgementality.
She is a great example with high values

Or at least be honest and start off with your post 'i dont agree with dogs living outside'.

Gee I hope the OP comes back to tell us what the outcome was though I suspect that they may now feel that adding further to this thread would just fuel the argument.

Some good points have been made by both "sides" of this argument. Some valid general points have been raised about the cons of kenneling dogs outside for long periods, all be it that they have been attributed to the OP and this situation with their dogs without any real evidence. KW is definitely correct in that assuming things is not the way to go, for example some assume the water bowl can be easily knocked over my question here would be is the water bowl/food bowl in a stand that prevents it being knocked over?

Some asume the dogs will become wet and cold if it rains, my question would be do the two of them snuggle up together and retreat to their kennel if it rains. (I don't think anywhere the OP has suggested her dogs are outsidew all weather with no shelter. Its fairly similar to working dogs outside with kennels since pretty much birth they go in and out as they please.
Some have assumed that being outside would cause the dogs distress, my questions, should I wish to avoid those asumptions, would be have the dogs been kennelled from an early age, were they used to being kennelled prior to moving to the new house and other similar questions.
Some assume (maybe the neighbours also) that because the yard is muddy and not a perfectly manicured lawn nor a paved or concreted area that the dogs are rolling in mud etc (rolling being figuratively speaking) my question would be is it the mud because the dogs are having fun trying to dig to bury bones toys chews etc (question killing two birds here as if the dogs are trying to bury toys etc they must have toys etc)

If the OP reads this I don't actually want answers to the questions I have posted above I am trying to demonstrate how things can be explored without making assumptions based on facts which have been written.

It is correct that some breeds are more prone to SA than others and yes a staffy is a known for its love of people, but not all dogs fit into the breed norm, maybe the ops staffy is not a people person, or is maybe perfectly happy with his doggy pal. Ben since being very young has been left on his own whilst I work this varies from 6 - 10 hours a day, having checked with neighbours this has never been a problem and often when I do get home he is fast asleep on the sofa and doesn't even move until he is woken up and realises I am home!
I think that anyone who has dogs, and loves them and wants the best for them would rather have the luxury of or ability to either not have to work, or work near enough to get home at lunch time, and also have a job that gives them a long enough lunch break to allow this (I only get 30 mins so it is physically impossible) however what people want and what people get are often two different things and it is up to each owner to do what is best for their dogs.
There are many reasons why the RSPCA could have been called in this instance and until the OP replies, which I really hope they do, saying what they were in this case we are all just making assumptions on what may or may not be the case, and as KW says assumptions are not the best

***THOSE OF A SENSITIVE DISPOSITION SHOULD NOT READ-ON***

Been waiting for this response haven't you
The dogs were seized this morning.....































Ok I'm lying, it had to be done just to feel the vibrant cheers and chants of rejoice from those certain few!
Of course they haven't been taken from us don't be so daft lol.
The RSPCA call centre has let slip that:
• "if it were a serious matter of concern you would have heard from the inspector on the Friday AM without fail"
• "so is this not considered a serious matter of concern?"
• "well I cannot be certain sir, but it is possible that the inspector is currently on annual leave so you'd have to wait until he returns"
• "I'm sorry to say this but if it were a matter of concern, serious or not, I do believe that a period of 'annual leave' between what has obviously been believed to be mistreatment or negligence of an animals' welfare is simply not acceptable, even by me and it's me that has been reported!"
• "Sir, the inspector will contact you as soon as he is back"
• "So he is on annual leave then?"
• "I cannot comment sir"
• "Ok, bye"

So there we are kids, I'm afraid that the anticipation must grow a little more.
I'll let you know what happens don't worry, I don't get shooed off by people.

Not sure if anyone has 1) assumed anything about how the OP keeps his dogs, 2) criticized him for the way he keeps his dogs!

The poster here for advice ,and to gain an understanding on why the RSPCA was called in,

Or maybe we got that wrong and he just wanted to vent, in that case he should have worded the title differently!


Posters (including me) gave their thoughts as to why a neighbour (if it was ) may feel the need to report someone to the RSPCA, the assumptions from what I see are all "generalised" not personal" they are giving a "maybe" this is why , NOT a it must be why!

After all as I said earlier, we dont know how the poster keeps his dogs, only what we have been told, and for everyone that considers this to be acceptable, you will get others who dont!

It also means, because you dont consider it acceptable, that is will be classed as cruelty or the owner does nto love their dogs!

Going back to my first post on this thread...as I ASSUME (that terrible affliction again) that Krusewalker`s very eloquent post was directed at me criticising the OP, for leaving his dogs outside

My post was a response to a question on why someone would call the RPSCA, to his home, after his original explanation (first) that the dogs were left outside for up to 9 hrs a day, I gave a suggestion (a guess) as to why someone would call the RSPCA!

Nowhere in my post was it a condemnation, but the OP took it that way and as often happens, when one hears something that they dont like, they come back throwing a hissy fit! because someone dared (me) to even suggest someone my not find their way of keeping dogs acceptable.

And as someone else pointed out, may be why the person (if that was the reason) did not feel able to confront him on the way his dogs are left daily.

You will also note , I did say that it could also be as Trouble suggested, someone just out to make trouble!

Krusewalker dont you think if you started a post with the below

'i dont agree with dogs living outside'

It would get someones back up even more , as again someone may take that as a criticism, peopel dont like to be told, by others that they dont agree with X,Z Y, no matter how its dressed up.

No I dotn agree with keeping dogs outside for 9 hrs a day (alone) with no one to keep an eye on them, nor BTW do I agree with them being left indoors for that amount of time.

Do I think its cruel, NO, dont think I said that at all, its just not the way I would keep my dogs!

I have friends who kennels her dog, they are in a purpose built kennel block, they spend the majority of their time living in there, they get exercised, take turns coming into the house, but generally they are kennel dogs.

Are they mistreated no, would I keep my dogs that way no, we just do things differently.

Could someone report her to the RSPCA , possibly if they thought the dogs where suffering, but the truth will out when the RSPCA visit and sees the situation for themselves, that one persons way of keeping their dogs can be different to others.

Which is a point I made also to the OP, shame he had to get all shirty about it, instead of taking what we have said on board , as to a possible reason for the visit!


I also think we will all agree, better for a visit from the RSPCA and it is unfounded, than a dog being left to suffer , because people are worried they will be called busy bodies and get a backlash from others.

Left outside or not.
RSPCA visit or not.
Barking Dogs or not.

I think the Thread started is rather sarcastic dropping ''jokes'' about dogs being seized after coming on here asking advice....................well

Perhaps it would of been better if the advice wasn't sort after as genuine people replied......whatever thier opinion was sad really isn't it

*Some off topic posts removed*

wow dogsey can fight about anything!!

I have also had the RSPCA, police, dog warden and many other agencies called on me by bullying abusive neighbours

and it is not nice!

But I found all the agencies lovely, they are used to be called in on faulse, misaken or malicious calls

The police even took the time to go and see the rspca to let them know they were satisfied with the conditions my dogs were kept in

I have no idea the setup the OP has - not the point of this thread
They were asking us about the stressful situation of the visit by the rspca

Yes many may not agree with the times the dogs are left alone, but also many happily leave their dogs alone for that amount of time no problems
as far as the rspca are concerned if the dogs have food, water, shelter and vet attention when needed then that is pretty much good enough

I am sure the op - and everyone on here - exceeds the conditions set by law

BUT it is a HORRIBLE nasty feeling for a sneaky cowerdly person to call out agencies on you
Yes it is great that people speak up about neglect, but it is horrible that they can use these agencies to bully people and stress their lives

Sometimes I have to be out longer than i would like

when I am in during the day Ben sleeps most of the day on the sofa - and Mia in her crate
When I am out the exact same thing happens