No, I really don't think a dog should have to be shown at all or worked before they are 'proved' good enough to breed from, unless you are specifically wanting to produce pups for show or for work.

Here are my reasons and are my personal views only.

The show world is corrupt. As much as people like to dress it up and disguise what happens, i'd never seek a pup by going on what achivements it's parents have in the ring. Mentioning no names of course, but I know of big breeders/show folk, with champion dogs who quite frankly should have been sold to pet only homes. I know of things that have went on that are honestly just not cricket! Yes a lot of dogs do win and do well on a genuine and honest backing, but for this reason I would never say that a dog is worth breeding from just because it has titles, or wins under the belt.

As for working, if you are breeding workers they yes fair enough, but if you are breeding for family companions, last thing you want to use is working stock.

They should however be as close as possible to breed standard, fit, healthy, no major faults and move well. All relevent health and any DNA testing should be carried out first.

JMO

I think if a dogs healthy and health tested and with no definater faults breedings fine. If you were only to breed winners in welshies there'd be 100 born a year.
I thought long and hard about breeding Bron as shes not good enough to show but the pick of her pups is stunning

For once woman, i agree with you!!
Note this historic day!

I do not think a dog has to be shown, or trialled to prove being 'worthy' of being bred, infact I think sometimes [especially with stud dogs] a certain dog can be far over-used for breeding if it has done rather well in the ring or field. If the dog has a sound temperament that one would expect for the breed, and passes all rellevant health tests, doesn't have any obvious physical problems, nor any noted health problems [skin problems for example] then i see no reason why the dog shouldn't be bred from just because it hasn't been in the ring or field.

Ah very good point Luke! To restrict breeding to show and work qualified dogs would indeed narrow the gene pool. Another way to increase health problems and deformities.

Also on this note, i have seen on a few occasions a certain dog will do well in the..show ring lets say, and that dog covers a fair amount of bitches-yes bitches with suitable pedigrees and such, but still numerically a fair few..the puppies are born from various bitches, all lovely..but this for me narrows that pool a little [or as has happened in some instances as i have been told, a lot] too close to comfort in some cases, and one begins to see an awful lot of dogs that are, in some cases, quite closely related.

It had to happen sooner or later :smt005 :smt052

Health tests etc, are first and foremost, and I have yet to see a dog who's BAD temperament was not caused by it's owners and nothing to do with the breeding it came from !

I keep hearing the same thing "but, pet owners dont care about the breed standard etc"

OOOHHHH but they DO..........

Because if they didn't and people just bred from any dog whether it was near the breed standard or not, then eventually every breed would be changing and probably starting to look like your average heinz 57' like the other 3000 dogs in rescue centres accross the country, and no longer would you have GSDs looking like GSDs or Spaniels looking like Spaniels, because 'pet owners dont care about breed standards'.

So what then ? You have every dog left looking like your average mongrel and no 'Breeds' left to choose from

My breed for example, is one such breed that really suffers. Because certain people wanted something that resembled a wolf (Malamute, Husky, Canadian Eskimo Dog, Greenland Dog, and many others not being good enough !) they decided to cross a few of them (including others not mentioned) to create a wolf lookalike. (I'm not opening a can of worms on this or going to entertain an argument about it), but because of this, we now have people who can;t tell the difference between a Malamute a Husky a Northern Inuit, a British Inuit and a Utonagon !!!!!!!!!! and I;m not talking about the general public, but people in the dog world who should know.

This is why people who show and/or breed become annoyed at people that casually cross breed dogs for MONEY or a designer dog that looks cute !!!!! It has nothing to do with the dogs health, improving or continuing a breed as we know it or improving declining numbers in a breed, it's simple greed and ignorance (I make no apologies).

The whole purpose of breeding is to do just that.........Improve, Continue or Increase in numbers of a breed that needs to be continued, so you pet owners can look for the 'breed' you want and find it ! NOT to make money.

On that premise, YES dogs should prove themselves first, otherwise how do you know if your dog could be actually defined by the breed standard it falls under.

The reason there is a breed standard for every dog is so that THAT breed stays how it should, i.e Collies always looking like Collies

If it weren't for people like us show people, striving to keep the breeds looking like they should, you 'pet' owners wouldn't have any 'breeds' to choose from !!!!

i have bred for show and pet,and i wholeheartly agree that health and temprement,should be first and formost,and someone said pet breeders dont keep there own pups for future breeding out of my 12 babies only 3 are not my own,i breed from the breed standard,pet people are not stupid they want there dogs to look like they should,they want there dog as healthy as he should be,the heart of a dog is like the engine of a car,if it dont work properly you get no fun driving round,all my dogs are health tested to the same standard as you show people,iv a bitch,whom i shown and done well with but i took her out of the show scene 1 due to she didnt like been shown,2 due to bitchiness,you get that in all walks of like not just shows,iv a couple of pups up and coming they may be shown they may not,but just because someone doesnt show but they breed doesnt make them any the worse for not showing


now i may hide

You just said you showed your dog and she did well, so I don't see your argument ! You have done what I agree with, prove your dog is worthy of breeding from to better or continue the breed.

Why do we breed dogs at all ????

Anyone asked themselves this question yet ?

If you can answer honestly and wholeheartedly and the answer does NOT involve money, and it's for the good of the dog, then that's fine. (No, breeding 'just' one litter does not decrease the chance of mammary cancers etc)

What gives anyone 'the right' to breed from a dog without good reason for breeding in the first place ?

What about the 'pet' puppies you sell that go on to other homes for other people to breed from and so on and so on.................

Rescue Centres and 3 dogs dying every minute spring to mind !

I have no axe to grind Malady but here's a thought - what about these simple 'pet owners' that look for a good, sturdy, healthy dog to be a companion with a great temperament but after scrutinising the current pedigree dogs discover that they are not necessarily being improved by these breeders or breed standards but gradually ruined? Then these pet owners do not find the 'breed' they are looking for.