Aha, another famous CM link! The Jindo, I remember this episode. The first time I watched it, I was absolutely shocked to the core. I was shocked by the anger, the violence, the sheer wish to kill of the Jindo. I was also shocked by Cesar's reaction. That episode shook me to the core, I have to say, because when I saw it we had not had our new digital telly long, and I had only watched a few DW's when I saw it.

Then I saw a repeat of it, and I started to change my mind about Cesar's reaction. Here we had a wild animal effectively that to all intents and purposes wanted to kill anyone and everything who tried to stand in its way. It met its nemesis in Cesar, who if I recall correctly got quite badly bitten. I have not watched the clip, because I am purposely doing this posting from memory to demonstrate how deeply it affected me. It was this Jindo episode that actually finally won me over to Cesar's methods, finally convinced me that the little guy understands dogs.

I know 7 barrels of horses poo poo will now descend on my head, but I speak from the heart. That vicious wild animal was the Red Zoner of all Red Zoner's and was destined to end up euthanised PDQ if it hadn't been for Cesar.

You sometimes get dogs that love to wind other dogs up by staring at them while lying down. They turn the other dog into a frothing barking mess which gets all told off while the instigator lies down and sniggers.

Maybe that's what happened?

Fiona

You're a lot younger than me CC. When you get to the grand old age off 55, you sort of become more patient automatically !

I still don't consider myself very patient though. I quite understand about the PM thing ... I can guess exactly who and why too, no explanation necessary. I thought as much, but I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

When you see the whole of Jonbees Clip (more than what is on that link) i find it tragic.

The owners couldnt get the dog to lie down.

CM got him to lie down outside, & instead of building on that or teaching the dog a down command, took him inside where the dog has MOST problems (why i think CM is impatient & continues to tackle it.

He is doing it on a slippery shiney floor for a reason, to make it harder for the dog to fight.

Those leads around his neck are disgusting that dog could have died there & then, His bulging eyes, are not of temper or anger, but of fear & lack of air, Would you really let anyone do that to tai Gnasher or CC to one of your Chis?

Thats true , and to be honest, that would be the obvious explanation.......... not the one Gnasher gave

No he would not ! I really disagree there. I hate that dang iLLUSION collar BTW, but I am sure in Tai's case he would not have used this, simply because the situation I had with Tai was nothing to do with leads, or being walked on a lead, just the opposite! It was to do with the dog's behaviour off lead! CM would have done exactly what I did. Except he probably would not have had to endure Tai's naughtiness for so long, because he is more assertive than I am. I am never going to be much of a dog handler, because I am such an old softie, and the dogs know it. When Tai runs at the fence surrounding our neighbours' chickens, just for the fun of seeing them flap and squawk, I cannot help but laugh, and Tai grins back at me as I kick his **** ... metaphorically speaking of course !! He KNOWS I do not allow this, but sometimes when I am miles away and not concentrating, he sneaks one in on me, because he is a git and I hate myself for laughing because it really is not funny.

So you see, I am just a weak and feeble woman after all

No Gnasher I havent "gone over this" with you at all, I have said "I" think its cruel but I havent asked you. Can you please tell or show me when it said Shadow was a Wolf cross.
And the highlighted bit, trick you? No need for that is there?

lol Hun! whatever!!!!! You have your opinion & i have mine!!!!!!! Not CM to me at all!!!! You are better than him!

Good point. When I interact with other dogs, I can often handle them, "read" them better than I can my own dog. I can see them, warts and all, without that emotional bond, although I love all dogs, obviously one always loves one's own dogs far more. As a consequence, you can often achieve magical results. This is a very good point Mish, something I have not really considered before.

However, I must disagree with you about him not having any emotional attachment with his dogs. He takes his dogs up into the hills above LA every morning apparently. I have had this argument with Borderdawn before, but I see no reason to not believe the Foreword in one of his books, where he states that when he is around and not off filming or whatever, he takes his pack up into the hills early in the morning for a long run. There is no better way of forming an emotional attachment with your dog or dogs than to take them out for a walk, a run, a bike ride, whatever. This becomes a ritualised hunt as far as the dogs are concerned. You are going out on a hunt, together, and it is absolutely the very best thing you can do with your dog or dogs. Which is why it is so important that we exercise our dogs, not just because it is good for them and us, but because it forms a magical bond of emotional attachment. This is the very best way to show your dog or dogs that you are Pack Leader ... some of you don't like that expression, but just forget that for the moment, I am on a roll here ... you are taking your guys out on a hunt, and it is striking at the very deepest part of their psyche, and our's. We are hunters, we are hunter gatherers still, it was such a short time ago that this is the way we lived, and it is the very best way we can bond with our dogs, to go out on a hunt together. We take Tai for miles along the canals, 20-30 miles minimum each time, and he loves it, he canters along beside us, sometimes falling in accidentally on purpose so that he can try and catch an unsuspecting moorhen or duck!

So I disagree with you about the emotional attachment ... but I do agree with you about the living thing. I personally believe if you want to truly bond with your dogs, you MUST live with them, and if at all possible sleep with them as well. Hal, and now Tai, had/have to sleep with us, their pack leaders, they cannot survive unless they are sleeping with us. It is incredibly important to this particular breed, although I know Mal and Husky owners whose dogs are not living in packs, but on their own with their humans, and they do not sleep in the bedroom. I just happen to believe you create the best bond with your dog if you trust him enough to sleep with him.

Absolutely Jackbox, this is EXACTLY how Tai was perceived, as being the aggressor. But this is my point ... he wasn't, it turned out that Tai was right. It was so embarrassing, because it appeared that Tai was being aggressive, but he wasn't. He was trying to tell us that that dog was not safe.

It may sound trivial to us, but after the water bowl incident, Tai has been absolutely fine with this dog. As I say, I trust my dog to the core now. This is the only time he has ever done this, and we have had him nearly 2 years now.