Oh, if only he were. That would be fab

First come, first served is the only fair way to decide it. Where's my trainers......................

ah, there you have me beat if we are talking about running. Swimming I'll leave you far behind in my wake, but I don't do running at my age !!

Is that `honorary` in the same way famous actors get degrees from publicity-seeking colleges that they`ve never attended?

Then I'm going to be one very sad Gnasher

There is danger and danger. The very slight chance that yet again he will fall between the bank and a moored barge is, in my opinion, worth the risk. Now when we are passing moored barges I keep him away from the edge, on the hedge side of our bikes, so we are taking the risk rather than he. Both OH and I are too fat to fit down a narrow gap between bank and barge in any case !! On the odd occasion when he has run ahead of us, we "oi" him if he goes near the edge in any case, so I think the risk is really zero.

As with my daughter, I will not wrap my dog in cotton wool such that his life becomes a misery. He would hate to be continuously put on the lead every time we passed a moored barge, it would ruin his enjoyment.

I think I recall you saying you were involved in horses, Jackbox. Do you have a child who rides? (Sorry if I have got you muddled with someone else).

yes and no. honourary doesnt require attendance but recognition of relevant lifetimes achievement / activity (university of life n'all that).

however, that wasnt my point.
although it is serving a point of not answering my points....
............like i said, I'm reaching a gold standard on this thread.

Yes, and although i agree with you on the "wrapping in cotton wool" I would never allow her to take unnecessary risks...

Would I allow her to ride without a hat, to show her if you fall off and hurt your head, you will remember to wear it next time... No ofcause not.... would I allow her to take that jump thats to big for her and her pony, No!

Would I allow my dogs to walk on a road without a lead and let them learn that cars hurt , teaching them to stay away from the edge, No, would I allow my dogs to fall in between something that may crush them to death, hoping the experience teaches them a lesson..NO

The risk of them learning the lesson V slipping a lead on near danger... well I`ll take the "ruin their enjoyment " anytime!!

I think it's certainly true that there's always a risk of people following what they see on TV and dong things badly. Just because an experienced trainer can select the appropriate method for a given dog and make it work it doesn't follow that the average dog owner can.

I mentioned earlier that a behaviorist that we worked with said that dog trainers only understand enough about canine behavior to teach very basic skills. The type of thing that they are qualified to teach is techniques that won't harm any dog - no matter how stupid the handler. Now I'm sure she didn't mean that all trainers were this limited, but rather that they are taught to use only methods that are very unlikely to do harm. This is a sensible approach. It will help most dog owners and it won't do harm to those dogs that the techniques aren't applicable to. But she did stress that these techniques weren't much use for 'independent' breeds...such as mine (And I have to agree with her).

One could reasonably argue that TV programs should also only show such techniques. Yet even 'kind' methods can be extremely harmful if people are fooled into believing that there is only one right approach and it WILL work for your dog. If you persist with something that's just not working for you then you don't solve the problem. Which leads to unhappy dog and unhappy owner. And perhaps even death of the dog through accident or euthanasia.

So where do people go if standard obedience classes don't work for their dog? I for one very much like to watch a wide variety of TV programs, read lots of books, talk to people with experience of dogs like mine and consult experts with differing ideas. The things that have worked best with my dogs have come from numerous sources....including the Dog Whisperer show.

At the end of the day you can spout theory until you are blue in the face. If something works when the theory says it shouldn't are you going to stop doing it? A behaviorist told me that her methods were scientifically proven. She claimed to think about dog behaviour in terms of algorithms. That's nonsense. I'm a computer scientist and I specialised in neural networks - computer programs that simulate the way the brain works. We have crude algorithms for solving problems using what we think we know about the human brain, but about the only creature who's behaviour we're able to express as an algorithm is an ant!

All of the dog people I admire most (and many aren't trained or qualified) use common sense. If something works they use it until they get a dog that it doesn't work for. Then they try other ideas until they find one that works. I get the impression that this is EXACTLY what a lot of the fans of the Dog Whisper show are doing - and they are reporting good results. Will you condemn them as liars?

I'm with you all the way on the riding hat issue ... having had a dreadful RTA on a horse ... my life was saved by my latest standard hat ... I absolutely agree with always making sure our children are protected.

No, I would not let Tai walk along the road off lead. The likelihood of him getting run over is much, much higher than the very small chance of him falling between the towpath and a moored barge for the second time !! I have already described how we ride on the water side now, with him on the hedge side, so that it is virtually impossible for the same thing to happen again. However, it could, very very remote chance, but it could, I agree. He very rarely runs ahead of us, but if and when he does, he is Oi'ed as soon as he goes towards a moored barge. I always look to see if there is a gap down which he could fall, and there never is. With this particular barge, it had just moored, and the bloke hadn't pulled the barge in tight to the bank on the stern.

I am just not prepared to spoil his fun clipping the lead on and off him every two seconds, it is totally over the top and totally unnecessary.

But walking along the road, or indeed biking, he is always on the lead, that is completely different.

Would I allow my dogs to walk on a road without a lead and let them learn that cars hurt , teaching them to stay away from the edge,