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30-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum 
Absolutely not, I had no means of doing so!
I watched live, I think you had access to more recorded stuff if you paid - like maybe breed judging, or watching re-runs. I seem to remember I wanted to see Richard Curtis's routine again, after seeing it on there live, but was told I'd need to pay.
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30-01-2011, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
They can have their view on crufts coloured by that - would just show folk how narrow minded they are. The incident you speak off is not linked to crufts - just because she competed with dogs an happened to be at the show..She could have done the same leaving the dog in the van or at home while shopping, walking other dogs, taking kids to school ect ect... People need to look at the bigger picture of course there are bad. Like with everything.
I do not see any bulling - all I see is sweeping statements.
I think all show people are proud of their dogs, most probs get abit fed up of bringing showing topics up. I for one can see why now. I havent been on this forum as long as alot of the daily active members and I am already fed up with the narrow minded folk stating this and that about people that enjoy showing as a 'hobby' with their 'loved' pets.
and we all enjoy different things with them. Plenty of people dont like the things that I do with my dogs, I am totaly happy for them to have their oppinion, but to call pidge narrow minded just because she dosent like 1 thing that you do is a little unfair, on this forum I have watched her learn and change her views on many things as she has strived to do her best by woody, I dont find her narrow minded at all
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Yes, because its an irrational view, condemning the "WHOLE" for one participant.
If I witnessed such an event, I would have no respect for "that person" and I would go out of my way to make sure I never bought or recommended said breeder to anyone.
Why I would them widen the blame or lose respect for the competition involved, escapes me
Pidge mentiond other reasons why she didnt like the show - this was just one thing
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
From growing up we took many BCs in off farms, on arrival seeing how all the dogs were treated, and how aggressive some of the ones we had come in where. Do I class all farmers the same and believe they all treat their dogs in the same manner no. Do I see all BCs the same..No or I wouldnt own one. I look at the whole picture and no there are always going to be bad in anything to do with animals.
I have been to bad training classes for agility, odidence and ring classes. I wont stop going to another 'better' one though.
I have been to bad dentist, wont stop me going to one all together.
Do you get my drift - I just fail to see how some one could dismiss something due to one poor experience.
and I would say pidge gave a fair crack at it by actually going there, I havent been to crufts, and I am sure there is lots of good there as well, but there are enough things I dont like to put me off the whole
and thats my right to decide that I dont like it, it says nothing about you or your dogs
Originally Posted by Hali
Opinions are fine, but when you post them on an open forum, you can expect them to be challenged, particularly if you are the OP and chose to raise the subject.
When posts give an unrealistic view based on either misunderstanding or an unrepresentative fraction of the whole, I like to try and balance out that view. After all, if no-one challenged some of the posts that have been on here, anyone reading this who had no knowledge of crufts or show dogs may well get a totally wrong impression.
I don't see that as a witch hunt. Or are we only allowed to challenge certain posts on certain subjects or are there certain members that we're not allowed to challenge at all?
People are making assumptions about what she saw without bothering to ask further
f she says she saw hot dogs in a hot area and they looked stressed then as we were not there at that point we have to take her word for it
She never said this was her only reason she dosent like the event - and she never said ALL dogs were hot and stressed - just that she had seen some
I have friends who have showed at crufts and wont go back becuase they didnt enjoy their dogs being benched all day
I guess it is more than possible for people to have stressed dogs there without meaning to because they woldnt know that their dogs couldnt cope with the atmospere of the big show till they got there - as plenty of people have stated it is far more hectic than a normal show
So it is v possible that pidge saw some stressed dogs
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
I was with the dentist for over three years.. Couldnt care less if they had improved, am with a fab place now.
My point was just because of one bad experience in a certain place it doesnt mean all places related to the same thing are also bad.
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
I read most of your replies. Just choose to ignore most. is not my problem either.. I am all for listening to others opinions but them that are narrow minded I couldnt careless for. I like showing and so do the dogs..There will always be people who dont like it, for what ever reasons..That to aint my problem
.
Originally Posted by Tassle
Don't have an issue with the challenging.
I do find it nasty when people turn round and say that the OP did not see things etc.
Originally Posted by Jackbox
I could say, I was went to watch an agility contest, HWM , or take your pick, and got upset because I did not like what I saw, hyperactive dogs, stressed out and when not competing lying bored or stressed and panting due to overheating on benches.
And as a result will never go to one again, because they all must be like that.
Now I will sit back and wait for the flack to come and challenge me""
BTW.....its not what I think, just a comparison
If you dont like it you dont like it - its not for everyone
Pidge (and me for that matter) have stated more reasons than JUST the overheating stressed dogs
You might see some things you dont like with some owners and put that down to individuals
But if there are lots of other things you dont like with the event then they may be added to the list of reasons why you dont like something
Originally Posted by Tassle
I would hope that the good could be explained in a rational way, without people jumping to the defensive.....but I think this thread proves otherwise.
I am very much each to his own.....but I have found Crufts hot (but have been told it is not so)...and I have been when it was at Earls Court and several times since it has been at the NEC, I have shopped, competed and Demo'd, but obviously I am wrong and I did not feel that at all - as 'the NEC is far from hot!'
I have seen stressed dogs. I have also seen chilled dogs - both of mine fell into that category. Jazz did not cope well. Tassle was fab.
People so adiment that it cannot be hot - of course some areas can be cold and some hot - what about the peke on the icepack - was that because the arena is so cold??
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
I agree entirely, which was why Pidge was wrong to say what she did.
She assumed, rightly or wrongly.
It is forum rules that we take the word of what the person says
Pidge says that she saw hot stressed dogs
Tassle has also seen hot stressed dogs at a show (and if you dont believe pidges credibity to say if a dog is stressed and hot (although I am sure she is quite able to tell) then i am sure you all believe that Tassle has the experience to say when a dog is stressed)
There is also the evidence of the pug on the icepack
So at times it is hot in the NEC
Sometimes there will be stressed dogs in any event
Pidge says she saw stressed hot dogs at crufts
can we leave it at that?? It is nothing against any of you or your dogs
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30-01-2011, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I am sure everyone is happy and understands that you are proud of your dogs, as are we all
and we all enjoy different things with them. Plenty of people dont like the things that I do with my dogs, I am totaly happy for them to have their oppinion, but to call pidge narrow minded just because she dosent like 1 thing that you do is a little unfair, on this forum I have watched her learn and change her views on many things as she has strived to do her best by woody, I dont find her narrow minded at all
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
But you dont go back to that one class or that dentist
and I would say pidge gave a fair crack at it by actually going there, I havent been to crufts, and I am sure there is lots of good there as well, but there are enough things I dont like to put me off the whole
and thats my right to decide that I dont like it, it says nothing about you or your dogs
yup - but you didnt go back to that dentist and you wouldnt recomend it to friends??
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
just because someone dosent agree with you does not make them narrow minded, that is personal and uncalled for
Like I said at the start of this post - I did not state that anyone that did not agree with me was narrow minded thats silly - how ever I stick by them that class all the same in one boat due to one bad experiences IS narrow minded IN MY OPINION.
Its not personal as to my knowledge (please do correct me if I am wrong) I did not say ..so and so is narrow minded.
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
can we leave it at that?? It is nothing against any of you or your dogs
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Location: london.uk
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Location: UK
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31-01-2011, 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
Of course we all enjoy different things. when I said narrow minded I did not state ANY name - and when I did state it, I didnt do it because others dont agree with what I do because I will show no matter who likes it. I called people narrow minded for dismissing something because of one bad experience - TO ME anyone that believes all and everything is bad because of one bad experience is not seeing the whole picture, which would for me make them narrow minded.
no I wouldnt go back to them, or reccommend them but I also wouldnt make sweeping statements about all dentists, and dismiss them altogether because of one bad experience. I have been across bad rescue shelters, bad breeders and the like doesnt stop me believing there are good to reccommend or go to myself. Just means I came across bad hence the bad experience and now need to find a better place.
....and if you can point out where I have said that it would be much appricated.
Like I said at the start of this post - I did not state that anyone that did not agree with me was narrow minded thats silly - how ever I stick by them that class all the same in one boat due to one bad experiences IS narrow minded IN MY OPINION.
Its not personal as to my knowledge (please do correct me if I am wrong) I did not say ..so and so is narrow minded.
It is if it concerns the hobbies/activites you compete in with your dogs.
As she is basing her views on more than 1 experience then you cant be calling her narrow minded
From what I see on here everyone who has said they dont like crufts dont like it for a number of reasons. Personaly my oppinions of crufts have been made over a number of years
Hmm so you are going to take every comment personaly?
Do you totaly deny that there may be dogs at crufts who do not enjoy the experience?
I think in any hobby there are good and bad points and if you enjoy it you will just work to overcome the bad points and enjoy the whole
But if you do not enjoy it then the bad points will grate on you more so
How is pidge seeing hot stressed dogs a personal attack on you and your dogs? Of course in any place there are going to be good and bad people
and why take offence? do you think by having a go at her pidge will suddenly think that she didnt see what she saw?
What she saw might not have been a representation of the whole - but she saw it
yes possibly not everyone takes a bitch giving birth to a show - but someone did
Yes not all dogs come from kennels where they are only seen as stock and moved on when they are no longer useful - but some do
Not everyone tickles their dogs balls to get the quisical expression needed on some standards - but some people do
You and many other people on here dont do these things, but it dosent mean that they dont happen
If you go to an agility show and see a stressed dog - that is not an attack on me - that is an attack on the person who lets their dog be stressed
If you feel most agility dogs are stressed, that is a personal belief and not one a share - but again not an attack on me
If you say ALL dogs are stressed - then that is personal and I would challange you because I know my dog better than you
you are free to love your hobby
I am free to dislike it
It is not an attack on you - it is just my oppinion
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31-01-2011, 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
OK I am sorry if I missinterperated your post, to me it looked like you were saying that Pidge was narrow minded
As she is basing her views on more than 1 experience then you cant be calling her narrow minded
From what I see on here everyone who has said they dont like crufts dont like it for a number of reasons. Personaly my oppinions of crufts have been made over a number of years
Hmm so you are going to take every comment personaly?
Do you totaly deny that there may be dogs at crufts who do not enjoy the experience?
I think in any hobby there are good and bad points and if you enjoy it you will just work to overcome the bad points and enjoy the whole
But if you do not enjoy it then the bad points will grate on you more so
How is pidge seeing hot stressed dogs a personal attack on you and your dogs? Of course in any place there are going to be good and bad people
and why take offence? do you think by having a go at her pidge will suddenly think that she didnt see what she saw?
What she saw might not have been a representation of the whole - but she saw it
yes possibly not everyone takes a bitch giving birth to a show - but someone did
Yes not all dogs come from kennels where they are only seen as stock and moved on when they are no longer useful - but some do
Not everyone tickles their dogs balls to get the quisical expression needed on some standards - but some people do
You and many other people on here dont do these things, but it dosent mean that they dont happen
If you go to an agility show and see a stressed dog - that is not an attack on me - that is an attack on the person who lets their dog be stressed
If you feel most agility dogs are stressed, that is a personal belief and not one a share - but again not an attack on me
If you say ALL dogs are stressed - then that is personal and I would challange you because I know my dog better than you
you are free to love your hobby
I am free to dislike it
It is not an attack on you - it is just my oppinion
I never said Pidge seeing hot and stressed dogs was an attack one me
How ever its an attack on someone, it was someones dog. She did not ask if the dog was stressed, has just been out for a toilet break, been in the ring, excited, playing with other dogs - just assumed it was hot or stressed to fit her arguements - we wont go there again.
I dont see where I have had ago at Pidge? I also am not offended it would take alot more to offend me
Yes someone took a pregnant dog to a show..An ethical breeder wouldnt, its not a common thing - infact most breeders take breaks from showing when a litter is due, and to raise them.
See the common thing here is 'but some do' - this is exactly my point, yes although some may do certain things its not always common and unfair to suggest it is, tarring all with the 'ones that do'.
I am free to enjoy my hobby with my dogs yes and you are free to dislike it I have no problem with that - what I have a problem with is the sweeping statements and generalising of all that compete in such activites. I can respect others opinions if they accept the fact that not all are the same in ANYTHING.
I have never said this was an attack on me
I would be upset if it was...My dogs are my life and are not show dogs - I am yet to get my first own show dog out in the ring. I handle mums
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Location: Cardiff, UK
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31-01-2011, 07:56 AM
Questions for Pidge
1. Have you only been for work?Have you ever gone for the day & done the whole show
2. what hall was your stand in? some hallsare better than others in terms of heat & space for dog etc
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31-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I am sure everyone is happy and understands that you are proud of your dogs, as are we all
and we all enjoy different things with them. Plenty of people dont like the things that I do with my dogs, I am totaly happy for them to have their oppinion, but to call pidge narrow minded just because she dosent like 1 thing that you do is a little unfair, on this forum I have watched her learn and change her views on many things as she has strived to do her best by woody, I dont find her narrow minded at all
I agree!
Yes but if you didnt enjoy the rest of the day AND there were things like that there AS WELL
Pidge mentiond other reasons why she didnt like the show - this was just one thing
Yes, and the other things have been covered when they were brought up!!
But you dont go back to that one class or that dentist
and I would say pidge gave a fair crack at it by actually going there, I havent been to crufts, and I am sure there is lots of good there as well, but there are enough things I dont like to put me off the whole
and thats my right to decide that I dont like it, it says nothing about you or your dogs
Yes she did twice, no one has said that Pidge is not entitled to her opinion, her reasons were given and "they" were challenged , some for inaccuracies in what she said.
Challenging is fine, but basically everything pidge says is being picked appart and she is being called a lier
People are making assumptions about what she saw without bothering to ask further
dont be silly, read the thread, thats all we have been doing for the last 66 pages, "asking" ,
she says she saw hot dogs in a hot area and they looked stressed then as we were not there at that point we have to take her word for it
I agree, she saw what's a she saw, I an many many others saw different, and "thats! why she was challenged.
She may well have seem the odd stressed dog, with so many dogs in one place you may well see the odd one, but her condemnation of the "whole show " on her experience, is what caused the backlash,
Lets not forget Pidge insinuated that "anyone" who shows , is tormenting their dogs!!
She never said this was her only reason she dosent like the event - and she never said ALL dogs were hot and stressed - just that she had seen some
And thats the crux of the matter, she insinuated exactly that!
I have friends who have showed at crufts and wont go back becuase they didnt enjoy their dogs being benched all day
Did your friends not qualify their dogs to get to Crufts?? because if they did (which they would have) benching your dogs at champ shows , will not have come as a suprise
I guess it is more than possible for people to have stressed dogs there without meaning to because they woldnt know that their dogs couldnt cope with the atmospere of the big show till they got there - as plenty of people have stated it is far more hectic than a normal showSo it is v possible that pidge saw some stressed dogs
It is only hectic around the trade stands, the showing halls are no different than any other big venue,
yup - but you didnt go back to that dentist and you wouldnt recomend it to friends??
True, but I would not tell them to stay away from "that practice " if another dentist was there!
just because someone dosent agree with you does not make them narrow minded, that is personal and uncalled for
exactly.
I wouldnt give you flack. I would give you flack if you had seen overheating dogs and not had a word with the show sec or someone
Which Pidge did , and did NOT report it!!
So you going to give her flack over that!!
If you dont like it you dont like it - its not for everyone
Pidge (and me for that matter) have stated more reasons than JUST the overheating stressed dogs
You might see some things you dont like with some owners and put that down to individuals
But if there are lots of other things you dont like with the event then they may be added to the list of reasons why you dont like something
Yup that is really bugging me
People so adiment that it cannot be hot - of course some areas can be cold and some hot - what about the peke on the icepack - was that because the arena is so cold??
Ofcause some areas will be warmer than others, I said that early on, around the trade stands and stair wells, (where more people congregate) it is not going to be cold, but get into the halls, were the show rings are, less people, so less body heat, and it can get very very cold.
Regards the Peke, it has been explained, (but no one wants to listen) the reason he was on an ice pack, was due to being in the main ring, with all the lights lighting to that extent gets hot , the rest of the venue is not the same,
and you are assuming that she was wrong when you were not where she was at the time
No, not at the same time as Pidge, but there none the less, the pointers were in hall 5, as others have said it was bl**dy cold in there, I was in said hall for most of that day, and as the GSP was in the same hall I saw most of them all day, now ofcause I may have missed the one that was panting/overheating on its bench.
It is forum rules that we take the word of what the person says
Pidge says that she saw hot stressed dogs
Tassle has also seen hot stressed dogs at a show (and if you dont believe pidges credibity to say if a dog is stressed and hot (although I am sure she is quite able to tell) then i am sure you all believe that Tassle has the experience to say when a dog is stressed)
There is also the evidence of the pug on the icepack
Sorry , but no she does not, unless you know why the dog is panting, you cant take the word of anyone "experienced or not" as to why said dog is panting, simply by looking at it
So at times it is hot in the NEC
Sometimes there will be stressed dogs in any event
Pidge says she saw stressed hot dogs at crufts
can we leave it at that?? It is nothing against any of you or your dogs
Sorry Pidge my response is nto directed to you, you explained yourself much earlier on in the thread.
The shame is that some keep having to drag it back up again, which sets it off all over again
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