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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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Quote Gnasher
As you all know, Shaun Ellis has started to come on to the Cry Wolf website to answer our questions.
Questions on what, dogs or wolves ? Hasn't he just put his dogs up for sale because he acquired them before finding out if his new venture was feasible and the premises he intended to use to house them were suitable, mmm hardly someone I would go to for advice on dogs.
I have just read something very interesting on there that Shaun says about alpha
dogs/wolves. Firstly, he says that true alphas are extremely rare in both dogs and wolves,
There are no alphas in dogs , how many dogs has your friend SE observed for long periods in large numbers. I spent years working 7 days a week in large kennels, in one we had paddocks where 25 dogs would all go at once . There would be the occasional scuffles between different dogs but there were no alphas or betas, all dogs were equal. The humans weren't alphas either, they were the ones with the larger brains and power of reason who dished out the food and training.
betas are by far and away the most common. Fine so far, I knew this already from his lecture, books etc. He then went on to say something very interesting about CM. A Cry-Wolfer had posted the video clip of CM with Shadow, the wolf cross, where CM gives Shadow an unnecessarily hard nudge with his foot - in this instance, I would describe it as a kick - and had asked Shaun if he thought CM was using too much force.
I agree the dog was kicked in the behind with a back kick, unnecessary ..
Shaun said that the manner in which CM had behaved towards Shadow was that of a high ranking Beta - a Beta Enforcer. In other words, he used too much force.
More mumbo jumbo and nothing to do with 'betas', bully is the more appropriate word here, using strength and a tight collar to cut off a dogs air supply to make it submit.
Shaun is saying that, as alpha,
we humans should not act as the Beta Enforcer but just as the alpha wolf would act in the wolf pack. Alphas do not dish out discipline,
the Beta Enforcers do (except in very extreme circumstances).
So we should act as alphas who do not dish out discipline , if we are the alphas where are the beta enforcers , are these the dogs who should dish out the discipline , tell me what kind of discipline do dogs dish out to each other then? .
A good alpha does not use force. Absolutely, I have never used force on either Hal or Tai.
A good trainer and owner doesn't use force, nothing to do with being Alpha...
This explains Hal's reaction when OH smacked Hal for growling at him. It was the worst possible thing that he could have done, because he was not acting as Alpha Male, but as Beta Enforcer. This is not the rank that you want to present when handling your dog, you want to present as Alpha ... calm, assertive Alpha, not aggressive pain inflicting Beta Enforcer ! This is why training with force does not work, as if we needed to be told.
It was the worse thing he could have done because he is the human with a brain who should know better than to smack a dog for giving a warning, nothing to do with being Alpha.
This has led me on to think about Hal being an alpha. And how for the first 9 years of his life, we really left him to his own devices. We taught him the basic obedience ... sit, lie down, stay ... but his recall was total crap and usually non-existent ! However, in the last year of his life when I started to use CM's techniques on him, there is no shadow of a doubt, they did work, although his recall was never perfect, more of a meander back towards you, but it was a recall nonetheless, it wasn't a total ignore as used to happen ! And I managed to stop him chasing and killing next door's chickens when they escaped out onto the set aside.
So were we right to leave him pretty much to his own devices up to 9 ? In the absence of not understanding what else to do, I think the answer is yes. However, a modified approach to the CM model definitely worked, and worked wonders. As with Shadow, had CM whacked him like that with his foot, Hal would at the very least have growled and turned his mouth on him, he wouldn't have actually bitten. So I am left still utterly convinced that we should all be Alpha to our dogs, never Beta Enforcer, and depending on the rank of your dog, use full on CM techniques, or modified, using your own judgement as to your dog's rank.
And even more than before, I think I now believe that although we must be alpha to our dogs, we do have to bear in mind THEIR rank amongst their own kind ... the rank they were born with. This is what CM is not doing, he is not making allowance for the natural rank of the dog.
I am amazed that after years of domestication people still think of dogs as wolves, I am convinced it is wishful thinking on behalf of some.