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Location: UK
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Posts: 5,551
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11-05-2006, 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by Shadowboxer
I have heard of shutting a sheep-chaser in a shed with a ram. Also heard that shutting it up with a ewe with a lamb at foot is even more effective. No first-hand experience of either method 
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Location: UK
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11-05-2006, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Ailsa1
Hi Borderdawn,Sorry I don't think it's the collar that saved that dog's life, more an understanding and kind farmer.
Also that there were surely other choices than death for the dog - rehoming, being kept under control on a long lead and let off in selected areas, etc
so the collar didn't save that dog's life IMHO 
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Location: UK
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11-05-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by Heldengebroed
This and other remarques off the kind are made by people who haven't a clue what they are talking about. So please refrain yourselves from forming an opinion on a subject you apparently haven't the slightest form of first hand experience and only prejudices due to the word "electric"........................First they startle like if you would put an icecube on them without them seeing it. then they look in disbelieve and start try to appologise.
It is a powerfull and humane tool needed in some training and for some dogs. Banning it will only result in 2 things:
-the use off less humane means
-the death off otherwise perfectably trainable dogs
As with all trainingaids these can be used and abused. I can even destroy a normal dog only using language and bodyposture without even touching him. so are we going to stop using voice in our training?
We are all entitled to our opinions, you included
Electric collars do of course cause a lot of pain if ona very high level, now come on... level 100 is a bit different to level 3, isn't it
If they did not cause discomfort or pain, they wouldn't work.
Depends as well if they are used as punishment or used as negative reinforcement.
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Location: South East UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,437
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11-05-2006, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ailsa1
To be totally honest, I don't understand why on earth you let him off the lead when he's killed already. If I've read this wrong then sorry...but you are saying you allow him off lead near livestock???????If that's the case then I'm pretty appalled. If not I apologise wholeheartedly. I NEVER allow my dogs offlead near livestock and never would. (They've never hurt anything touch wood). You're lucky the farmer didn't shoot your dog ( as cute as he is).
There are sooooooo many people on here who have dog aggressive dogs who very responsibly keep them onlead where there's any chance of contact with other dogs ( I totally admire them), this is a similar situation. (In my opinion). To then compound that by using a shock collar....I have to admit I'm pretty dumbfounded by it. If you had him onlead he wouldn't need it.
I'm really sorry if I misread your posts...
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Location: Somerset, UK
Joined: Sep 2005
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11-05-2006, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by jess
wow Johan, thanks for your post!!!!This is the perception i get from people all the time, which i why i don't tell alot of people. Which is why in my original post i asked for peoples experienced opinions.
I still stand by that these collars of course should not be used by people with no training experience, and if all other methods have failed. And again fear aggression is not something that this will help; only be detrimental to.
However, look at what is going on with check chains! I have seen someone actually use a check chain in a training class and witnessed the dogs windpipe collapse because of it, and emergencey first aid had to be done for the dog to breath. It was awful.... and these things are free for any idiot to buy in a shop!!
And here you are all giving me stick me for doing the best I can to not get my dog shot, and at the same time not abandoning him at home in my pusuit of the outdoor life.
I like the ice cube metaphor - it is a shock but it cannot be described as painful. But it's one of these things you have to experience before you can really talk about...
You asked for opinions and your getting them - just because the opinions aren't what you want to hear doesn't take away from other peoples experience. You bought your dog and are responsible for its actions. I've seen dogs "trained" using these methods and i've drawn the conclusion that they're a get out clause when a person doesn't want to address the issue. Your dog is a killer and always will be - if you want to keep him alive you'll take sensible precautions and using a method (nomatter about the fact we disagree about the method itself) that could fail at any time for many of the reasons people have pointed out is putting your dog at risk every time you take him out. If it was my dog i'd care for it sensibly not risk its life every day. IMHO I wouldn't be surprised to see a post saying some farmer had shot him and no doubt it would all be the farmers fault when you should keep your dog under much stricter control.
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Location: South East UK
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11-05-2006, 12:07 PM
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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11-05-2006, 12:23 PM
My 6 year old son was obviously there and listening.
I said, there's a lady on DW who uses a shock collar to stop her dog chasing sheep ( explained shock collar to son as it giving the dog an 'electric' shock, like from a balloon or car door' as he asked). I said this dog had already killed a couple of things. My 6 year old said 'shouldn't it be on a lead mum???????' then (with nooooo prompting and he's a city lad who holidays in the country)
'if I was a farmer and I saw her dog again I'd shoot it for hurting my sheep.' NO PROMPTING. Out of the mouths of babes....
Jess it's nice to live in a democracy and have freedom of choice, but what choice are you giving the sheep/farmers or to be perfectly honest, your dog? A sheep just need to see your dog charging towards it to be put into shock. Is that what you want?
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
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11-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by Ailsa1
Hi Borderdawn,Sorry I don't think it's the collar that saved that dog's life, more an understanding and kind farmer.
No, definately the collar, the dog can now be trusted not to chase Sheep or other livestock, the Farmer was kind in letting him walk his fields and in doing so the guy kept his dog. Whether people like thses collars or not (and I dont) they have provided adequate solutions for some dogs, where other methods have failed.
Dawn.
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
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11-05-2006, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by jess
The farmer said to me that if my dog even so much as looked at them that he would shoot him. I laughed (I liked him, he was a nice guy) and he said he was deadly serious. My dogs run about the stables, and can't be 'on leads' all the time, this kind of brought it home that I was in danger.
Going to shut up now.
I've made my point a few times and there's no point making it again. What you do is up to you Jess, I hope that your dog doesn't kill again
( the citronella spray lost it's effect...so will the shock...what strength of shock will you stop on?) I also hope your dog doesn't get shot
because if it does, it will be entirely your fault. My opinion.
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Location: UK
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11-05-2006, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by Ailsa1 (but in general)
A sheep just need to see your dog charging towards it to be put into shock. Is that what you want?
The reason I would put my dog onlead if it chased sheep (which mine would) was because farmers can be a bit trigger happy with their 'right' to shoot a dog if it looks at a sheep or cattle in general. and for that reason alone I wouldn't run my dogs off lead with cattle around.
To add, I wouldn't recommend an extendable or long leash around livestock areas either because I have heard some farmers will shoot even then.
I wouldn't rely even on any other method of 'control' where the dog was off lead because I guess some farmer would still even be with in 'his rights' to shoot it just for being off lead.
I can't be arsed with all this so I don't much see the point in walking my dogs through fields like that so I don't if I can help it.