Well that post about Staffords from Staffordshire WAS supposed to lighten the mood, I do know why the name came about lol. Sadly peddlars will cash in on any type of dog, whether the name came about or not there would have been a different one. Like the recent influx of AmStaffs into the country, which funnily enough all seem to come from lines such as Patrick and Reid on enquiry which I never realised these guys bred AmStaffs There are always those willing to jump on the bandwagon and out for a quick £££ with no regard for welfare, image or where the dogs go.

I dont think there is a lack of concern here, its just people will always have different views because ultimatley people have different tastes. Perhaps you and others are concerned about the size which is a fair observation some dogs are too big imo but like I keep trying to say good dogs come in all shapes and sizes and there will always be variations in type and size. Just because you prefer a smaller dog and have ideas on what a stafford SHOULD look like does not mean that others do nor does it mean you or they are any more right or wrong than the next.

Now surely what I said is true, its what we hold for the future that counts. Where does the problem lie if somebody is breeding well balanced healthy dogs that are slightly taller or slightly smaller, as long as the dogs are capable and have the Stafford heart why not live & let live. Who is the judge as to what a Stafford should ultimatley look like. Some people just prefer a slightly taller dog and some smaller then there are some, like myself, in between. Variety is the spice of life so they say.

There are a few websites around featuring KC staffords up to 21" and throwing pups consistently as tall as this in some cases so its not something that is solely attributed to the irish strain dogs too.

Sorry but I think sensible breeders only breed from the best dogs available (wherther they be big, small or somewhere in the middle) and they make sure their dogs are all well behaved in public and friendly towards people and other dogs, that does a lot for breed image.

If what you say is true, that people who breed dogs with a chequered past such as irish staffs should be breeding them small and not calling them irish staffs, then the same could be said of other breeds which have a bit of a bad reputation.

A few years ago there was a big hype about rottweilers and they got a bad name for being vicious etc, now how come breeders are not trying to breed them smaller and disguise what they are by calling them something else?

Im in agreement with you about the name Irish staffs - I personally prefer sporting stafford or old tyme stafford, the trouble is, if you say that to people who arent in the know, they often dont have a scoobie what your talking about!

I advertised a litter of pups a while ago as old tyme staffs, and i had lots of people phoning me up saying they wanted a short, stocky dog, in the end I gave up and changed the wording to irish staffords, got my pups sold no problem after that. I use the term "irish" because that is what most people know them as, i do think a name change would be a good idea, but it would take a while to convince people to start using it, and a fair bit of confusion would arise in the process

I have just the same opinion on those breeders also, MAD, do they have no idea of the DDA and the dreaded word TYPE!!! PLus I would suspect there is a little more than stafford in those lines to acheive that kind of size, but thats yet another kettle of stinking rotten fish guts!!
Prehaps if others had witnessed what I and other did back in 91 first hand when dogs of "type" were seized and destroyed for appearance alone, my standpoint would be a little clearer.

well i went to the mates last night and we got out his old videos and let me assure you stormer and physco are a lot stockyer than people nowadays seem to think also health wise how many people are getting health checks done on their dogs because eye problems and other probs were rife among these working dogs in the years these dogs were going
BSL was mentioned that is the greatest threat staffords have and while some idiots think that it is great to have a dog snarling at the end of a lead at other peoples dogs,and also other idiots openly bragging that their dogs are for funtion only this is only going to reinforce other dog owners that BSL is a justified law and it is these people who own other types of dogs that stafford owners are going to have to rely on for both support and financal aid because stafford owners alone will not be able to fight BSL themselves In fact how many stafford owers are actually invovled in campaining against BSL not as many as should be okay an article gets printed in the paper and everybody kicks up about it thats not what i am talking about stafford owners should be out fighting to get this law removed and actively campaigning against BSL because the BSL law is only going to get strengthened and more draconian if we dont the people with KC reg dogs have people fighting BSL in this country and are actively supporting people in other countrys it happens to be Canada at the minute
but what about the unregistered dogs nobody is fighting their corner they are getting left out and left behind so the people with unregistered dogs need to get their act together and fight for their dogs life here and i dont think they could rely to much on the IKC and the like because it has only had one funtion in my eyes and that is to make money

That is great nobody is arguing your right not to do this, it seems your trying to argue a point here nobody is disagreeing with, kind of arguing with yourself so to speak. Its up to you which lines you prefer and what type of terms you wish to use too. Freedom of choice and speach.

The thing is I dont like the term Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier either like I have mentioned a zillion times and like CBT has said but I do think the term Irish strain SBT or Irish bred SBT is acceptable. Each to their own that is what I say, I am not bothered about what other people do with their dogs to be honest. I do what I do with mine, I call mine what I call mine and I am happy with that.

i understand your point betchya, back then a lot of dogs were seized as a result of media hype, one of which was a famous case of a dog called Otis who was a great dane cross who was seized from a car despite the fact he didnt bite anyone or do anything wrong

however, we are now almost 15 years on from those days, and people dont give a monkeys anymore. pitbulls are being imported into the country, and bred from and yes, in some circles they are still being fought, sadly, so I think the hype from those days has cooled down.
The only people you hear about being charged nowadays are the scum who neglect their dogs and breed them purely for fighting, and rightly so, these are the sort of people who should be caught and punished regardless of what breed they have, admitedly its not very fair on the dogs, but my point is that it happens very rarely nowadays, so if even the die hard dog men who fight their dogs are getting around the law, your average staffie owner has little to worry about so long as they keep their dogs under control and make sure they are well supervised, and always use common sense when exercising them in areas where other people and dogs might be around.

The DDA is a stupid peice of legislation and I wouldnt lose any sleep over it. If your not fighting your dogs, you shouldnt have much to worry about.

I can vouch for that CBT I had a junkie neighbour who had 3 big pitbulls, beautiful animals but untrustworthy and man biters too. To cut a long story short they were let off lead every day and attacked dogs every time they were let off and the dogs owners when they went in to pull their dogs off. Apparently it was nothing new as they moved from street to street with the same thing happening.

The police had been to this idiots house god I lost count how many times but never once mentioned the type of dog or that they could have the dogs removed, they just told him to keep the dog on a lead in future, which he didnt and the end result was the killing of a wee terrier type dog sometime back even then he was allowed to keep the two older (worse) dogs although one was taken away. It went to court and the case was thrown out. These were the same three dogs that attacked my Cassy, for no reason, when she was a pup and she had to undergo surgery twice after that. Its people like this that make my blood boil but the fact that the police did nothing really says something about how much the laws have laxed or how little importance it is to them. All our neighbours who had trouble were always told unless the dogs attacked a person there was very little that could be done. Its this type of idiot that give the breed a bad name imo.

Off topic rant over lol.

poor cassie folk like that give dogs a bad name

Yep they sure do CBT my point in posting that story was to illustrate that the laws, at least where I live, seem to be much more lax these days. I have come to realise usually though that these are the type of people seem to get away with most things but that is a different debate all together lol.

well round here the law isnt laps the other week a poor lad had a stafford took off him and took to court as a pbt.after him producing two show judges of staffords to say it was a stafford it was still put to sleep from evidence of a vet sayin it was as pbt .the dog had done nothing wrong either and wasnt agressive.