I know what the definition of " elitism" is, I just wondered how it describes the thousands of people who showed their dogs at CRufts this yr.

But as you don't want to get involved in this debate, I guess you won't answer.

I guess that makes me confused.I own Staffords, I help with rescuw, I love crossbreeds, I am judging at a show for a breed not recognised by the KC and I show pedigree dogs at Crufts.

Until I went to crufts I could not have said it was cruel or not, I went to check it out for myself after hearing some terrible things. I decided while I was there that while some problems exist that should be tackled the idea of a dog show itself isn't bad at all and plenty of people and dogs were enjoying it so it certainly wasn't cruel to them.

Whats "talent" then?
Genuinely interested, I find the thread very amusing.

Too tired to read every post but I get the jist of the thread.

My thoughts on the whole thing.....

A dog has a job, so those of us that use the dog for it's purpose want the attributes that best suit the dog's role. Whilst we all want healthy dogs, breeding for those attributes might not be the best thing health wise.

Whilst I appreciate people don't like the idea of dogs being 'evaluated' on looks and a wee jog around at Crufts, breed standards (upon which they're being judged) promote health which is good.

Breed standards may well take the dog away from the form it's taken for it's purpose hence we see differences between 'show' and 'working' breeds.

I like the idea of getting the balance right in some breeds and correcting issues but for others I wonder if we should just own up to our past mistakes and call it a day.

oh Hello Sandy

at least I'm not alone!

Thanks for enter the battle arena

Hi Phil

I agree with what you say by and large.

I think what I find unpalatable is the idea Crufts objectify dogs and that some win prizes on account of the way they look and are thus deemed more desirable. Many local dog shoes have fun features i.e the best mixed breed or the dog the judge would like to take home etc.. whilst amusing to watch it still contains the principal that some dogs are better than others, but at least it partially steps outside the physical features and enters into the spirit or character of the dog.

It is very difficult to argue when the idea of winners and losers of people, dogs, horses, cars etc.. is embedded deep in our culture, which is why I am not really willing to enter into the debate here as it takes the discussion into a whole different philosophical realm

I have no idea whether the owners at Crufts are good or bad owners, I suspect given the rewards, that most place the look of the dog over its physical and psychological long-term health and wellbeing (of their own dog and the breed overall) - but who knows, I've yet to meet one.

You're most welcome

Crufts has amazing shopping!

LOL must admit it does at that