I don't need your recommendations for 'good makes' of them because there are no circumstances under which I would use one of these on any animal. The photographs - thousands of them that show the burns and damage from e collars are not showing the sort of injuries caused by 'static' - static electricity doesn't leave injury marks!

You have gone on at length about just HOW BAD your dog was yet say you have only had to use an electric shock collar FIVE TIMES? Well how bad a dog is it that only needs correcting five times in how many years?

I can't think of one situation where I would use an e collar.
I have a dog with a high prey drive who would chase sheep at the first opportunity even more so since we were attacked by a Ewe last spring . Ewes with lambs often paw the ground and put their head down in a pretend butt but on one occasion a Ewe came for us and I just managed to pull Chloe out of the way before she was trampled .

The remedy to chasing stock is simple, I don't let dogs off lead where there is stock . If I have a dog with poor recall (and this was the case with a dog I looked after) I would only let it it off in a secure area or on lunging rope.

If the time came where I could not control a dog without the use of pain I would cease to have dogs . I would rather rehome a dog or in an extreme case put it to sleep and know it is free from harm than to intentionally inflict pain on it because of my inadequacies.

Oh I so agree with Meg, I cannot think of anything more inhumane than using something that purposely inflicts pain on an animal.

Absolutely agree we have had some terrors who would chase or had about zero recall our answer was longer leads and harnesses so we don't injure their necks shocking them never even entered our heads.

That can be taken both ways Tang, either the dog wasn't that bad so didn't need much zapping or the pain was so great that it only took 5 zaps to stop the behaviour.

If someone put one of these collars on us and every time we done something, for example, sit down, we were zapped, doesn't matter how low or high the zap was. Wouldn't we stop trying to sit down? I know I would just to stop being zapped.

Whichever was true Mattie - I still don't like it. Don't like it if it was that the experience was so horrible the dog quickly 'learned' or if something like that was used on a dog that only needs correcting so very rarely.

Electric shocks are used by some when torturing prisoners to get them to 'confess' their crimes. If they were so bad it killed them it would be pointless but I'm sure they are bad enough that there is a very good chance that the person it was being 'inflicted' upon would do as they wanted them to so as not to have to undergo it again.

As for them being described as delivering a 'buzz' (whatever that means) just to 'get the dog's attention' well I am sure a high pitched whistle or similar would achieve that if that's all that's required - just to get the dog's attention. I've seen the DREADFUL photos - so bad I wouldn't put any of them on here and they are photos of damage done to dogs whose owners used electric shock collars. And they weren't all big strong dogs either. A common use for them apparently is to stop a dog barking!

If Wales has deemed them bad enough to ban them - why not everywhere else? Or are dogs outside of Wales more immune to pain than dogs inside Wales?

As for them delivering 'static' electricity - I've just read this ...

I am enjoying this discussion myself.Totally ignorant on the whole issue of e-collars and this is proving very informative without turning into a boxing ring,like you say...refreshing
So in your dogs case the collar is used basically to re-direct?Is that correct?

I hate them, it doesn't matter which type, they have no use in training dogs. There is a use for vibrating collars as many deaf dogs wear them so the owner can communicate with the dogs but they don't give a shock.

There is a difference in the electric shocks given when torturing, they are usually main electric which can give a much bigger shock. At least the collars can only give what the battery will let them, doesn't mean it is right though.

Yes they can do damage but don't believe everything you see without questioning it, there are quite a few types of E collar and all of the can go wrong. On another forum someone bought one for her dog, it was faulty and the dog had a terrible shock, she sent it back and they replaced it, this one was faulty as well so the dog got another terrible shock.

Why I said question everything, a lot of those photos are from dogs were the collars were on all the time, if they were faulty they dogs just got shock after shock and the owner wasn't around to see it. They are recommended for dogs that bark a lot when the owner is out, very dangerous to leave them on. These can be to shock the dog or spray air, water or citronella into the dog's face.

I was once offered to be taught how to use them properly, of course I refused, no collar like that was going on my dog but I did look into them to understand how to use them so I could argue back about their use. The more knowledge we have the more we can argue for or against things.

Everyone's perception of pain and discomfort is different. What may be a mild irritation to one may well be painful to another. Dogs too have differing pain thresholds. For some, even the lowest levels will be perceived as pain while others may not even feel such a level.

Pain threshold also varies from day to day, hour to hour and it is impossible to predict what that threshold is at any given time in another living being.

It should never be necessary to inflict pain and/or discomfort in the name of training. I'd go further and say that we should never willingly do so.