He sounds a real character!

I am very aware of this. This dog came to me when she was 7 months old and hadn't been particularly well socialised. We have been successfully working on that. However, I have done extensive training with her to try and make her relaxed in the house both on her own and with the TM who she gets on with very well. He has always been relaxed and calm home alone, so she has a good canine role model. I've had a fair bit of experience handling and training shar-pei of my own and other people's, as well as handling dogs like rottweilers and akitas amongst others. I know exactly how to keep myself calm around dogs and not pass on anxiety signals or either mollycoddle or be too harsh on the dog. I could write a pamphlet on leaving and returning to a house in a calm and relaxed manner.

I've tried the 300 peck method, crate training, desensitised her by leaving and coming back in every method you can imagine. She's the only dog I've ever struggled to crate train. I've been back to the beginning quite a lot and buit back up, but it was quite obviously not working and my neighbours were at their wits end. Funnily enough, she's the easiest shar-pei I've ever had as far as training things goes and she will sit and wait on command with no problems, even outside when she's dying to chase birds.

The only way she sees being in the house alone as being a calm, relaxed experience is to have a kong. She's actually calm now as I get ready to leave and doesn't even look up when I go. I may be able to phase it out eventually, but for now I'd rather keep my dog and not have a noise abatement order.

Glad to see you here at least to explain your standpoint

one thing that really sticks out for me is you saying to train dogs 'unnatural' things like walking to heel you are OK with people using treats
But 'natural' behaviours like walking nicely on the lead you find praise is enough

Firstly, it is one thing that annoys me a little bit that people assume that dogs just automatically know they are supposed to walk nicely on a lead - it is not a natural behaviour, some dogs pick it up easilly - some not so much
and actually my dogs find walking at a heel position looking up at me pretty natural, its not actually something i have trained - just captured it from them doing it naturally

2ndly
Yes you can teach loose lead walking just using praise - with some dogs - but there are 100 other methods there - and no doubt you are utalising some of them - 'punishment' when the dog pulls - either changing direction, stopping moving, stopping praising

rewards can be all sorts of things too - moving forwards toward the thing they wanted to pull toward, praise, moving faster/jogging, tuggy, and food even

You can train it with just praise - but I certainly found my rescue dog learnt so much quicker once I started using food

I am also a little concerned that you talk about modern training methods as if you have an understanding of classical and operant conditioning - yet you call treats 'bribes' is there a reason you are so against them?? The police army and assistance dogs all use food/toys to train dogs to a very high level


I also would like to know what breeds you have worked with
sounds great that you have such well behaived GSD's, but have you tried your method with many different breeds?

Am I correct to assume that to make your attention a reward you withold affection at other times?
and so as not to 'bribe' your dogs you give them food for free?

also I would be really interested to hear you answer the others questions about your qualifications

Not that I am desperate to get on the tv!! But if I thought there was a good positive trainer on the telly who would be showing the public and really good alternative to the shiny toothed dog botherer I would happily put forward Mia for someone to enjoy pulling their hair out over

The animal who controls the games and the food and other resources is in charge,

No difference rewarding/bribing a dog with praise to rewarding/bribing a dog with food or games.

It might make some humans feel better about themselves to think that the dog so desperately wants a fuss from them that it will give up various 'bad' habits.

Personally for what I want I am happy to use rewards.

Sadly I think that any programme extolling no reward except a bit of fuss and depriving the dog of attention until it is desperate for it is likely to make for a lot of unhappy dogs and frustrated owners.

We'll see.

rune

They could have Storm too.

Would be interested to see how they'd deal with a strong willed dog whose attitude would most likely be..."you don't want to stroke me now, fine f*** you then"

lol exactly, Mia loves a fuss, but she wont work for it - she is totaly happily independent in herself - once while trying to teach her not to run off on walks I went and hid from her
10 min later I sneaked back to see her playing on the beach by herself with a stick
Using food to make being around me a nice place to be has her not running off any more

IME it is often insecure dogs who will work for a fuss, maybe the owners ignoring them makes them insecure.

That would work but I wouldn't recommend it or do it myself.

rune

Havers, could I ask, are your own dogs kennelled or do they live indoors with you?

I've seen the extreme of what you suggest and the dogs, whilst highly obedient, are so attention hungry that they are robotic in nature - so much so that they daren't be dogs for fear of upsetting their owner. Difficult to explain in words, but you look at the dog and everything within you screams out that it is no way for any living creature to live.

Isn't there a lady who was on TV and now has franchised trainers working under her guise that does the watered down version of what you suggest, ie ignoring for five minutes every time you enter a room etc???

From the info you have provided, I can't get my head around whether you suggest the ultra attention restriction of the first trainers I mentioned, the watered down version of the second, or perhaps somewhere in between. Maybe I've misinterpreted all together ?

One of my favourite articles on deprivation practised by some dog owners in various disciplines.

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/52/97/

It is NILIF then?

The problem I have with `instinctive ` trainers (ones who have trained their own dog then moved on to others` without study of basics) is that they have missed out on the rigour of scientific methods. (I have no idea what study you have done so I`m not referring to you personally, just the trainers that TV programmes appear to use)

When you take a (good) course which qualifies you to teach you begin by studying existing methods - including those you don`t use, which gives you underpinning knowledge.
You then compare and test these theories until you have an understanding of basic theory. . In this case, how dogs learn, how they process information, and how behaviour can be reshaped.
Then when you move into practical work you learn how to use a reflective practice`. Meaning that after each session you evaluate objectively (using mentors and peers occasionally) and reflect on what you have learned from that session.

The problem with the `I`m good at dog training and have a natural flair with people` trainers is (IMO) that they have no solid base. They do what works but they don`t know why. Thus they attribute eroneous or spurious reasons for their success.

The dog does what I say because he respects me.
Well, no. This is anthropomorphism. The dog may be acting from fear, from altruism, from hope of the stress to stop, or in expectation of pleasure (reward.) They do not `respect` people. Or each other. They are not gangstas.

The dog knows what I want him to do
A common delusion. A dog does not read minds, He reads body language. And again - anthropomorphic. NILIF comes into this delusion in a rather cruel way. The dog flails about until he accidentally hits on what the handler wants. And the handler is reinforced in his delusion.

The dog must know his place.
All of the above.

You see, even to use the term `bribery` makes me wonder if you understand how animals learn. Try training other species - it`s a very good excercise. I began by training horses. You don`t use NILIF with horses. You don`t demand `respect` and you certainly don`t try force.
You use Reward, avoidance and repetition. You make it easy for the horse to do what you want and then make that the accustomed thing to do.

It`s the same with dogs.
You obtain the action
You reward the action
You label the action... (Phillipa Howard)


So - while it is totally possible that `pop` trainers are wonderful etc etc I would dearly like to see them paired (on TV programmes) with a trained Behaviourist or Trainer who has `done the course`. And who can provide checks and balances.
Then we don`t get trainers dangling dogs till they pass out while chirpily advising people not to do this at home.