Did you think your son was agressive? or just scared and responding to the situation
It is diffierent to restrain for medical reasons - often that is the quickest method - but noone says that is sorting the behavioral problem it is just the medical problem

What CM achieved was to get Jonbee to submit - whether he was relaxed or not is down to the observer's opinion. This was a tiny, tiny part of the overall rehabilitation, but the first step with a dog that is aggressive is to get him to acknowledge the human's authority. And that doesn't mean the human is being mean or nasty or cruel. It is just so the dog can achieve a calm, balanced state of mind in order for it to move forward.

- Jonbee wasn't calm or balanced, he was rigid.

As I asked before, do you believe the owners should not have addressed the issue of Jonbee's aggression when inside the house? The owner should be able to handle the dog without any aggression at all regardless of the setting.

- Yes, of course his aggression should be address, I just think that the way it was done was wrong and unsuccessful.

Would anyone accept this sort of behaviour from a child? If a child was aggressive like that it would be corrected. So CM was correcting the dogs aggressive behaviour.

- Would you stop aggression in children by bullying?

I don't think the dog really suffered. Yes it was thrashing about and it looked awful, but it was Jonbee who was doing the thrashing. Cesar wasn't ragging the dog about.

- It was unnessesary and CM caused it to happen.

Like I have said several times, to understand his philosophy one needs to read his books. TBH I didn't really understand what he was doing until I read Cesar's Way.

- I am reading it at present, as I said before I am undecided

Just to bring up a point that was made a while ago about the dramatic music used on the TV show - I agree it is way OTT.

I don't remember Cesar actually pinning him down. In the first clip, yes he did handle him to the floor, but he didn't hold him there. He wasn't frightened, he was aggressive. Would it have been better for the owners to never bring him in the house and just have a ticking time bomb waiting out in the yard? Like Skyspirit said, the purpose of getting the dog to 'submit' is to drain all the anxious/aggressive energy (or behaviour if you prefer) so the dog will become more balanced.

Mishflynn, in no way do I have it in for you. I'm not picking on you. I'm trying to answer your questions. You're the one who wants to debate this issue. I'm not going to agree with you just because you think I'm having a go at you. I haven't used any aggressive language towards you, I've just tried to explain a bit.

You say you know about CM, but it's evident from your misunderstanding about why he was getting Jonbee to lie down, that you don't. If you knew about his background then I'm very surprised that you would think he is exploiting dogs for financial gain.

You said that I wasn't allowing you your opinion. You are not allowing me mine and if I do have one you see it is picking on you.

What you are saying is your opinion, it doesn't make your analysis correct. I'm sorry I just don't agree with how you see CM so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Please don't think I am launching any personal attack on you, this isn't the case at all

Hey Ben McFuzzy, isn't it great to have a debate where we can all give our opinions and not be reduced to playground tactics (unlike in some other places you and I know about ).

I agree, we'll never see eye to eye on this, but hey ho, it doesn't matter. What's important is we all want what is best for our dogs. Whichever training method we choose, as long as our dogs are happy and healthy it doesn't matter in the end.

LH I don't believe CM is a bully and I never will believe that. The way I see it, he didn't cause the situation. The owners caused it by not addressing the issue soon enough. How else would he have corrected the dog's behaviour indoors without actually putting it in the situation? Would you be happy leaving a dog outside for the rest of it's life? I know I wouldn't.

No it shouldnt have EVER been able to get away with that behaviour, but it was a old fat dog that had done it for years & i dont like to see dogs bullied & chased with rackets, Intelligent breeds like that do not need to be treated like that, that dog could have been trained. The dog WAS distressed & i felt very sad watching it. Owners fault Completly but dont like how he dealt with it. sorry.

The dog wasnt physically hurt but it was mentally stressed. no need for it.

Sorry, we clearly rate different things as important