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Location: West Sussex, UK
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,533
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05-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg 
Just a few thoughts on the whole sheep/livestock/chasing deer etc.
My dog, a BSD, has a high chase drive. She lives to chase. I take her off lead into the New Forest where there are:
pigs, cattle, horses, riders, joggers, deer, donkeys, etc
I achieved this through lots of reward based training, details include initial desensisiting and habituation plus lots of good basic training (recall, sit, down, wait etc) plus more advanced training (chase recall, distance commands).
All of this was done using postive and predictive reward, e.g. kong on a rope which she was trained to love (play item chosen with care to reflect her preferences of exciting unpredictable thwackiness and movement!
).However, in spite of all of this, and her being very responsive, trained from a puppy, being walked in the areaa for years, one thing I don't do is let her off near FOALS!
Because for some reason she realises that these are different.
Weaker? more playful and gadding about? Smell different? more skittish?
I am not sure and cannot ask her. But I do know for sure that if she was off lead too close to a foal, she would be likely to want to chase it.
So, she is still off lead on the walks in Spring BUT I keep an eye out, know where the herds aare, and recall her immediately and put her lead on when coming up to foals.
She is fine with this and enjoys recallling and even being on lead, as we have fun together whatever we are doing and that includes lead walking. In this situation her lead is let out and she has freedom of movement so a very loose lead walk, then once away from the foals she is let off again. However I can do recall/whatever is needed in case.
IN the Lake District, I exercised her off lead in Rothay park Ambleside, but on lead (long line and harness) during our daily walks as she was fascinated by sheep in spite of being habituated generally to "animals" and I think may have tried to chase.
It was fine, she had loads of exerdise and was a very happy dog throught our whole holiday.
I have posted this for 2 reasons:
1) to show that dogs will show a lot of interest in some types of animal even though they may be habituated to others.
2) It is possible to have a dog who is full of life, energy and who lives to chase, under control and happy
I totally appreciate I had my dog from a pup and also that she is more biddable possibly than Ben, but I believe the scenario is adaptable.
Wys
x
I've only had one experience of these type of collars and I cant say it was a positive one. I used to ride at a stables that opened up onto a main road. The resident jrt had a habbit of chasing anything small and furry that was nearby which put her in danger of running into the road. They had a system put in where she would get a shock if she passed the gate (I think there was a boundry wire and sensors?sorry, not sure of the full system) The problem was, the shock would not stop her if she was in full flight. Adrenalin would mean, although she felt it, she was going to fast to stop. But she learnt at what point she felt the pain and would refuse point blank to come back in through the gate which left her at risk from the road again. It certainly didnt stop her running out, but left her a quivering wreck to come back in again!
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Location: Essex UK
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,424
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05-03-2011, 11:11 AM
if you've ever had a jolt of a sheep fence you'd know how that feels. I wanted to run to my mummy too... How betrayed would I have been to find out that shock had been administered by my mummy ... Be glad your dog will never know. He will carry on thinking the world Is a scary place where pain and fear lurk around every corner and the only safe place is by your side. And you can carry on thinking his closeness is borne from obedience or loyalty...
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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05-03-2011, 11:35 AM
Like in wys post I think training is something you do every day
recal training is just part of your everyday playing and interactios with your dog
'Ben, come here and see what Ive just found'
'Mia - lets have a chase game'
I get the feeling that too many people just want to be able to go out, ignore their dog till they demand they come running back
- and BTW I let my dogs call me sometimes too - yesterday they found me a seagull wing they wanted me to look at (ewww) Ben has pointed out some deer to me (and didnt chase them - no idea why but it was lovely) and Mia found a fab new walk for us
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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05-03-2011, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
- and BTW I let my dogs call me sometimes too - yesterday they found me a seagull wing they wanted me to look at (ewww) Ben has pointed out some deer to me (and didnt chase them - no idea why but it was lovely) and Mia found a fab new walk for us
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Location: West Sussex, UK
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,533
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05-03-2011, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I find it really sad that people want quick fixes
Like in wys post I think training is something you do every day
recal training is just part of your everyday playing and interactios with your dog
'Ben, come here and see what Ive just found'
'Mia - lets have a chase game'
I get the feeling that too many people just want to be able to go out, ignore their dog till they demand they come running back
- and BTW I let my dogs call me sometimes too - yesterday they found me a seagull wing they wanted me to look at (ewww) Ben has pointed out some deer to me (and didnt chase them - no idea why but it was lovely) and Mia found a fab new walk for us
I know at our training club, they are always telling the owners a dog will only come back to you if you are a more appealing prospect that what its going after. If you stand there just repeating the dogs name, the dog will almost give you the finger before sodding off! But make yourself sound fun and exciting and the dog will want to come back to you. I would never want my dog to run back to me because its been hurt or in pain because of something I've caused! Wheres the trust in that?
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Location: West of Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,034
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05-03-2011, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by tillytheterrier
Thats lovely, what great walks you all must have!
I know at our training club, they are always telling the owners a dog will only come back to you if you are a more appealing prospect that what its going after. If you stand there just repeating the dogs name, the dog will almost give you the finger before sodding off! But make yourself sound fun and exciting and the dog will want to come back to you. I would never want my dog to run back to me because its been hurt or in pain because of something I've caused! Wheres the trust in that?
So making herself sound and behave like the best thing is that dog's life (whilst having him on a long line and harness) and repeating training every single day is never going to work, eh. How sad.The fact that she doesn't really know what goes on when the dogs are out walking with her OH is worrying also. Surely you'd make sure you knew exactly what happens so you were both singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak, with regards to the dogs ONGOING and MANAGED training. Odd.
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Location: scotland
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 725
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05-03-2011, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Where's your brain? Did you think to ask how big the hole was? In a fence, not my fence, in a wood where we happen to walk our dogs a few times a week? How? Do we carry tools around with us?
Sorry if I'm being rude, but really!!
http://elf.calstock.org.uk/admin/law/animalact.htm
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Location: Bad Fallingbostel, Germany
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,180
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05-03-2011, 02:05 PM
I wish he'd find interesting places for us to walk, I can live without seeing the seagull wing though lol.
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Location: London, UK
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,498
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05-03-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Westie_N
Still want to know if Gnasher has had the blasted thing used on herself, with someone else controlling the remote so as she doesn't know exactly when the shock is coming........
Well?
Shall we assume that the OP has not tried the e collar on herself?
If she had, I presume she would have stated it already.
I think the clue to this whole thing is in the heading - the OP 'let' her OH use the e collar. She seems to think that because she herself is not hitting the button, she is in some way absolved from the damage this may be doing to Ben.
If the OP really, truly believed that
a - e collars are painless
b - there's nothing wrong in using one
then she would
a - have tried it on herself
b - be hitting the button on the collar Ben wears, rather than standing by while her OH does it.
Does anyone know where the OP lives etc?
Perhaps if yes, someone should be reporting her for cruelty to Ben...?