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Borderdawn
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05-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
No that’s right they are not raced – they all go home and sleep all day on a comfy sofa and yes I will roll my eyes because anyone who finds it believable or that its acceptable that those who cannot or will not do the job they are supposedly bred for should be culled, either humanely or not are not IMO dog lovers. What was your breed bred to do – does yours do it? If not why have you not had them killed?



Oh Dawn you’ve never owned a greyhound that’s for sure! The slightiest knock on one of mine and she is rolling on the floor like a football player screaming as if she’s mortally wounded! My other grey got very depressed because she had a e-collar on for her wounded eye! No they don’t feel pain like humans – they feel it much worse according to them anyway!

Just because they cannot express the pain does not mean they do not feel it ! Im sure if they could go and get pain relief they would just because they cannot does not mean they do not feel it.

Can I ask then if one of yours gets injured do you just let it get on with it? Do you never seek vets advise or medical help for them? Do you refuse pain relief for them?
It would depend on the injury like anything else, a small cut would be cleaned and bathed as you would yourself, anything serious is off to the Vet!
Of course humans would not shrivel up in those circumstance – have you actually seen those 100mtr runners with no legs? They still go about their business and continue to live full lives and quite frankly its very condescending of you to say that humans who have lost limbs, gone blind etc would just shrivel up! My niece has cerebral palsy which affects her leg how dare you say she would just shrivel up! Someone round here may lose the use of her arm – do you think they will shrivel up – NO they will not!
Thats out of line, I was talking merely of a person who was ripped open as in a dog that was fighting, or someone who suffered a serious injury like a broken leg, they wouldnt continue, they would get help, to suggest I meant anything like being disabled is not fair at all Spot! FYI I am classed as "disabled" myself so I take umbrage at your comment there.
Back to the topic – no I do not believe any animal should be exploited for human profit – to me greyhound racing is the same as going to the circus, dancing bears and performing dolphins – not my cup of tea at all.

Also regarding your terriers – I presume you dump them once they are too old to continue to do the work you want them to do, or do you just take them to the bloke down the road to smack them over the head with a shovel?
Well a terrier that is too old to work is usually about 12yrs old! so most if not all will stay with their owners.


Yes some greyhounds love to run doesn’t any dog? However, greyhounds do have to be trained to leave the traps as quickly as possible – mine still has the scars to prove how she was trained to do just that!

I just wish those people who think greyhound racing is all lovely and smells of roses would realise it isn’t at least for the dogs anyway – but then again what does it matter because it seems to me that here greyhounds are not actual dogs but some other species that are not anywhere near as important as other breeds.

Again for people who think its all fine – I take it you do not have a problem with puppy farmers then? They are just the same as greyhound breeders – churn out loads of pups and don’t give a damn where they end up – ok tarring all with the same brush but those who do care are few and far between and also turn a blind eye to those who don’t. They overbreed these dogs knowing full well not all will make it to the track, those that do will have a short working life and once finished there are nowhere near enough places in rescues to cope with them. To me exactly the same as a puppy farmer.

Sorry about the long response to this thread but my time is limited on the computer so tend to do it all at once.
I must say Im upset at your disabled comments Spot, I really am.
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spot
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05-08-2008, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I must say Im upset at your disabled comments Spot, I really am.
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
IThere is a Deer by us with a withered leg that flaps about in the breeze, doesnt stop him doing everything he should do though and will still jump the fences that surround the field, he's been like it for ages and ages, can you see a human doing this? I cant personally
Dawn you should of made it much clearer then as I was extremely upset by the reference to a deer with a flapping leg - how would a human cope in those circumstances - as I said my neice has a damaged leg and she coped bloody well thanks.

Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
It would depend on the injury like anything else, a small cut would be cleaned and bathed as you would yourself, anything serious is off to the Vet!
Why? they dont feel pain why dont you just let them get on with it?

Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Well a terrier that is too old to work is usually about 12yrs old! so most if not all will stay with their owners.!
Why does the owner keep it if its no longer able to do its job? A greyhounds job is to make money - is that really right and why are they disposable when they stop earning that money?
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Paddywack
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05-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Animals do feel pain, but Im not sure in the same way we do no. I know that women that have hysterectomy's cant get up within a few hours and be back to normal in a few days like a Dog can, same goes for much surgery type issues with animals, they heal quicker. I also dont think they feel pain in a similar sense to us in as much as they continue with life with serious injuries which in many apparently do not bother them, Dogs like Pit Bulls fight and fight and dont stop despite being ripped to bits, so the answer to your question is, IMO, no animals do not feel pain in the same way humans do.
Of course they feel pain in the same way we do. You really don't have a clue do you. They may heal quicker but they still have the same pain receptors. The canine nervous system is the exact same of that of a humans.

What they don't do is feel sorry for themselves like humans do - Although I've met some dogs where even that could be debatable!
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Jackie
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05-08-2008, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
No that’s right they are not raced – they all go home and sleep all day on a comfy sofa and yes I will roll my eyes because anyone who finds it
Ok, less with the sarcasm.... you can roll your eyes as much as you like... where did I day they went home to be pampered all day....NOWHERE!!!!!!!

The question as I recall was about Greys being forced to race..... not about the industry and the clean up it needs...

I think we all agree (even those who enjoy the sport) ....that the industry needs tighter controls, and the welfare of many dogs suffer....

In all these threads... I dont think I have ever said any different.... but as far as the sport goes, (I dont enjoy it by the way) simply does not interest me, but I defend the right for those who do.

Many , many yrs ago I worked (sat job) in a racing kennels.... so can only speak from my own experience... those dogs where loved by their owners/trainers, those that retired where taken home to lay on the sofa all day.... the dogs where well looked after, loved the job they did... not all owners are unscrupulous owners that dispose of the unwanted, in a vile way.

Not so long a go, a friend , through a friend, gave a home to an x racer... the owner/trainer, worked his butt of , finding this dog a forever home... which he has now!!
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red collar
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05-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Dawn you should of made it much clearer then
maybe you should have read it more carefully?

Why does the owner keep it if its no longer able to do its job?
oooh, lemme guess.... the owner cares for the dog and wants to look after it?

Originally Posted by Paddywack View Post
What they don't do is feel sorry for themselves like humans do
IMO feeling sorry for yourself has a lot to do with the perception of pain.

8 weeks ago I broke my leg when out walking. My rescuer (rolls eyes ) got the car stuck in the mud about half a mile away, she was 7 stone wet through and 5ft tall, I'm well ... bigger than that so she couldn't carry me. Being somewhat isolated I could have waited a looong time for a helicopter lift, so I walked half a mile over the fields with a fractured tibia and gritted teeth. If I'd been at home I'd have been screaming the place down.

Pain thresholds can go up and down for the indivdual depending on the context, which was how I took Dawn's post.
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sallyinlancs
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05-08-2008, 12:50 PM
I don't believe greyhounds are 'forced to perform as a betting medium'. I think they enjoy chasing and as they have no idea of money, the betting part is all human and of no concern to the dogs.

I do believe their should be tight controls regarding the health and safety of the dogs involved. However, I don't believe in mollycoddling dogs (or humans) and getting hung up if things aren't ALL nice and good ALL of the time. Taking risks and learning to accept some rough with the smooth is all part of a fullfilling life - for both animals and humans.

Too many people assume that an easy life is a good life. I think most creatures deep down WANT a job to do - a purpose - something to strive at that involves both mental and physical EFFORT.
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Borderdawn
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05-08-2008, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Dawn you should of made it much clearer then as I was extremely upset by the reference to a deer with a flapping leg - how would a human cope in those circumstances - as I said my neice has a damaged leg and she coped bloody well thanks.
NO Spot, you should of read it properly and instead of "thinking" what I said, you would of known what I said. To even suggest I was being hurtful towards disabled people is very unfair, you know yourself I have been caring for my disabled mother of late too. The Deer is still around too and he copes just fine too!


Why? they dont feel pain why dont you just let them get on with it?
Dont be so silly, you are grasping and being sarcastic for no reason now.

Why does the owner keep it if its no longer able to do its job? A greyhounds job is to make money - is that really right and why are they disposable when they stop earning that money?
Because he wants to, likewise a Greyhound who's owner wants to keep that.

Originally Posted by Paddywack View Post
Of course they feel pain in the same way we do. You really don't have a clue do you. They may heal quicker but they still have the same pain receptors. The canine nervous system is the exact same of that of a humans.
Obviously not no! Ill just read your posts from now on.

What they don't do is feel sorry for themselves like humans do - Although I've met some dogs where even that could be debatable!
In your opinion..
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LittleLady
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07-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I think you will find that not all greyhounds are born to chase. As this Irish breeder clearly states.
link removed
Why has this link been removed Can we not all have a look at the evidence people use to support their views It would be good if more people could reference their claims, especially when discussing statistics.

And just so people know which side of the fence I sit on. I don't disagree with the theory of the sport itself but when it comes to how it is executed I don't think it holds the dogs welfare at the foreront in every case. And here's my link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3210234.stm

L.
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spot
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21-08-2008, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by sallyinlancs View Post
I don't believe greyhounds are 'forced to perform as a betting medium'. I think they enjoy chasing and as they have no idea of money, the betting part is all human and of no concern to the dogs..
But surely it is the betting part that makes trainers etc force the dogs to run – if they don’t want to run or would rather have a play they are ‘disposed’ of.

Originally Posted by sallyinlancs View Post
I do believe their should be tight controls regarding the health and safety of the dogs involved. However, I don't believe in mollycoddling dogs (or humans) and getting hung up if things aren't ALL nice and good ALL of the time. Taking risks and learning to accept some rough with the smooth is all part of a fullfilling life - for both animals and humans...
So the risk to greyhounds who do not want to run should really fulfil them – erm how? Why should I accept some of the rough that these dogs end up with – how is it fulfilling to see greyhounds starved, hung, flogged off to spain to have an even worse life? Why should we accept the rough with the smooth when the rough is death, injury, or dumped?

Originally Posted by sallyinlancs View Post
Too many people assume that an easy life is a good life. I think most creatures deep down WANT a job to do - a purpose - something to strive at that involves both mental and physical EFFORT.
My greyhounds have a job – its lazing on a sofa after being turfed out – one when she had done her job, one because she didn’t want to and was unable to when she broke her toe – it was never seen to


Originally Posted by Borderdawn;1449849:
NO Spot, you should of read it properly and instead of "thinking" what I said, you would of known what I said. To even suggest I was being hurtful towards disabled people is very unfair, you know yourself I have been caring for my disabled mother of late too. The Deer is still around too and he copes just fine too!
Dawn I can only apologise if I read it wrong and misinterpreted what you were saying. I am extremely sorry I have given you cause for upset – you know where Im at at the moment so may have been oversensitive but again Im sorry Ive upset you.

Because he wants to, likewise a Greyhound who's owner wants to keep that.

But what about the ones who don’t want to keep them because they are no longer able to do that job or not good enough to be bet upon? What happens to these dogs and why is it perfectly acceptable for greyhounds to be got rid of either to rescue or worse because the betting fraternity will not make money for the bookies?
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Freyja
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25-09-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm new on here which is why I've not replied before.

I own 2 greyhounds a show bred male and an ex racing bitch. Button came to me straight from the track I saw her advertised for sale and as my friend lives near to were she raced she went saw her and took her home. I picked her up from Peterborough lurcher show a week later.

Whilst there we stopped to watched my friends lurchers racing Button went mad she wanted to join in. We took her home and then started taking her to a group that raced lurcghers. Just for exercise as it was in an enclosed field. We then took my show boy with us. He had been hit by a car 6 months previously and wasn't allowed of his lead he went mad for the lure and in the end he had a small run. He had never sen a lure before but chased it all the same. My dog go mado if I put greyound racing on the telly. Button gets down as if she is waiting to come out of the traps when she hear the hare moving and the traps open she jumps forward as if about to race

My point is greyhounds are not forced to race they just love to run they are taught to come out of the traps but no one can force a dog to race that doesn't want to. I think with the prize money on offer I don't think they will stop betting on racing.

Just out if interest there is no betting allowed in whippet racing it is purely for fun nd the chance you may get a rossette and a trophy at the end. I don't think that will ever happen in greyhound racing.
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