Price does make a difference - but in difference ways for different people
No way could I have afforded the pedigree prices, I wanted to support rescue and not the KC and I also have seen some temprements that I dont like in pedigree dogs (thats just my oppinion) I found my £75 a total bargin, I got a pup, all his jabs, chip, neutered and any help I need for the whole of his life (plus collar, lead and food)
woman round the corner from me paid £600 for her min shnouser cos his dad was a champ, to me the breeder sounds sus cos when they wanted another pup 6 months later there was another litter from the same bitch
they didnt know any better and think cos they paid a small fortune then the breeder must be great
dont know what health checks parents got cos she didnt know enough to ask

If I get a dog that is not a rescue it willl be a BC, and I will be looking for a farmer who works his dogs all day and has the parents and grandparents of the pups
he only produced a pup from his dogs cos he needs another one himself and he is selling off the rest to good homes (hopefully I would be accepted!!)
I am not as bothered about health checks if the dogs ancesters have been able to work all day into old age

Have not read the whole of the thread but to answer the question in the title it would have to be no. However I have never bought from a breeder I did not know so may be if you do not have time to research the breed and breeder it is a different matter.

I wish you luck then if you aren't bothered about health testing(even the minmum for BC's should be eye testing-puppies eye screened)

You will be lucky to find a farmer/shepherd who only breeds when he wants a replacement dog & no other reason, this would mean a litter every 5/6 years making the mothers quite old for a first litter. Plus even more rare a farmer/shepherd who doesn't have registered dogs who would be so careful placing his pups-the words Hen's teeth come to mind

Have to say Dyane that does sound like an ideal that probably does not exist. Most the farmers I have known have allowed their dogs to procreate at will that is why until recent times collie crosses were so very common alongside terrier crosses for the same reason. Farmers are only interested in the working ability of the dog and any that do not come up to scratch from a litter are disposed of, sold if possible, given away or shot.

Sadly it now seems the "lets breed a hard dog" brigade have taken over the top of the irresponsible breeder list.

even with DNA tests it still doesnt prove that a dog will be free of any genetic illnesses. some only occur later in life and are,as yet, unable to be detected by testing.

DNA testing will only stop breeders from falsifying pedigrees by proof of parentage.

For Border Collies there are tests needed for PRA & Colobamos & obviously deafness, epilepsy & HD. However clinically testing parents( & puppies for colobamos & deafness)does reduce the incidence of some genetic conditions far more than simply breeding from dogs who appear to be healthy on the outside(I had a BC from generations of working dogs who had cr*p hips both his parents lived long & active lives)

DNA tests for BCs don't just stop breeders from falsifying pedigrees they ensure that puppies can be born without TNS or CL both of which are fatal conditions

I'm talking about all pedigrees not just BC's.

it still doesnt give a 100% guarantee of health problems.

only early detection and more tests can do that, so eventually/hopefully these conditions can be eradicated.

We only breed when we want to keep a pup or two. Most shepherds have a number of dogs depending on the amount of sheep they have to look after and acreage on which the sheep graze - retired work dogs, full trained work dogs, started young dogs and pups who are just being pups.

Saying that though, we do have to sometimes sell on an older dog who is finding the hill too much but still wants to work or a promising youngster who isn't a great hill dog but who will do well on a lowland place and therefore we need to have upcoming dogs every so often. This is common practice with working dogs.

I am sorry you have had such negative experiences with farmers and their dogs Jackie We only breed when we are wanting to keep a pup for ourselves and our dogs are not allowed to procreate at will - that also goes for the majority of farmers and shepherds I know (although I do know of the odd "mistake" )

Yes, farmers are mainly interested in the working ability of the dog. To be fair, that is why they have a working dog and why we have the border collie breed in existence - but they also care about the health and temperament of said dog, as most farmers/shepherds want a healthy dog that can work tirelessly and be a good work mate for many years, and also many farmers and shepherds have families and children, so need friendly dogs with excellent temperaments.

I know there are plenty of bad apples within the farming community - just as there are in all walks of life, but please don't tar all farmers and shepherds with the same brush.

Unfortunately Kirsty I do, we don't have much livestock where we live now but when we did what I said was what I experienced. And yes, there was always the exception but in general the dogs were free range when not working and yes they made their way to the village and were a nuisance chasing cars as well as bitches some were house dogs but those were not working and some where chained up but most roamed the farm and surrounds freely.