As far as cockers go, I saw my first working cocker about 2 years ago when a man brought his pup to training class. I thought it was a springer and couldnt understand why it looked so different. We had a show style cocker in the family and I was used to seeing one of those and I never realised the 2 types existed. I much prefer the working type personally.

I know of a lady who has one of each and does agility with them. The working type is pretty placid, generally does as he is told and is more focused. The show type is very stubborn and just goes off into his own little world following his nose, even if it takes him out of the training area and off into the fields. Sometimes she doesnt even know where he's disappeared off to! He's stubborn in the sense that he'll just stand looking at her instead of doing as he is told and when she tries to get a hold of him, he simply plays a game of dodge! He's also far more vocal and will quite often bark.

I'm just wondering if the focus on handler and job as well as a willingness to please has also been compromised in the show type lines.

With ref to the working ESS, Flynn's gundog trainer has a small tribe of these and I thought they were cockers, lol! They are very small and petite, not like the springers i've seen at obedience and in the street. The working cocker and springer appear to me to be very similar...The picture of the one above looks just like the working cocker pup I referred to! Confusing to the untrained eye!

Some more Beardies.

This is our Posy from many years ago. Show bloodlines.



And Charlie, who comes to stay with us now and then, at 4 months. He does have a bit more coat now Threequater working, quarter show bloodlines.




Although there is a big difference in coat between the two types in this breed, the structure doesn't seem to have changed quite as much as it has in the Border Collie. I'd say the influence from the New Zealand show imports over the last couple of decades has been responsible for this in increasing body proportions to a heavier, broader, shorter legged type with flashy movement and fluffy coat.

Good thread BTW

Not quite sure what you mean by a carp back but if you mean a shape like the magnificent shepherd who won best of breed at Crufts this year, then his shape is dictated by the SV in Germany the country of origin, about 15 years ago I used a German dog of a similar shape though not quite as magnificent, on my bitch, & one of the reasons I used him, apart from it being a complete outcross with my lines, & the fact I loved his looks was the fact that he had full herding qualifications & worked sheep in Germany & was also shown there before being imported into this country.
As I've stated before there are different types of GSD but one is not a working type & the other a show type,far from it.

Great post, very informative, thanks.

Oh nice What breeding was she please??

Breaksea, she was littler sister to Chs B Confused and B Gothic. By P Conclusion x B Gypsy Moth. Thank you for the comment.

A that explains it I've had a look on the Beardie pedigree site and she is related to several other dogs I really like a lot

We have a working english setter. Lovely to see working on the grouse:









Helen

Aw its so lovely to see the working ES, I have met one in the flesh, she was more aloof than my two hairies, loyal to her owner though Your one is gorgeous!!

i have a working lab and he is so different to the show labs. my lab is very tall and very musclely. he also has a very dark almost caramel coloured coat. most labs i see round here as pets are from show lines and they seem quite short and chubby to me but then i'm used to looking at my handsome harvey