when I said 'perfect dog' I ment a good KC standard,
Serens parents were excellent standard, so were trins but I never had any intention to show her.

I don't no, to me I just have this thing about breeding to breed standard, I feel it should be stuck to

Ofcourse health tests are extremely important to

sorry guys this seems to have gone off topic ........just a little

What would you have said if asked that question in 1923 ?

I don't no hun,
I wasn't born then

LOL

I just meant - if you said that back then - then half the breeds we have now - wouldn't exist.

Who made just now the place to draw the line ?

you've got me on that one love

Erm, I think you'll find Parti and Phantom poodles have been around an awfully long time too! And to prove my point here is a picture taken from a 1951 poodle book, the dog on the right is clearly a phantom

I collect poodle books and even have some going back to the forties, they all mention parti's and phantoms, many poodle paintings going back centuries are parti's, as far as I'm aware Dobermanns have only been around for about 100 years, poodles far longer than that. So why is it acceptable to you that Dobermanns can have 2 colours added to their breed standard and that's OK but poodles, a far more ancient breed with well documented 'wrong colours' is wrong?
Becky

Going back to the original post, the people I know are about to breed a dog whom has blue eyes, which isn't part of the breeds standard a breeding which could possibly result in a couple of deaf puppies too (as the breed is also known to suffer with deafness).
I don't condone these kind of breedings infact I think its wrong and they are more than aware of my feelings about this, my advice to them was to have the dog spayed.

Now as for Poodles my gran bred and showed Toy Poodles for years right up until around 1988 she was forced to retire from breeding and showing due to ill health. Then unfortunatley we lost Nan in 2004. Although Parti and Phantoms have been around a long time I can say this on behalf of my gran she wouldnt have bred anything that was out of standard, wrong colour etc, simply because they were outside of her own ideals and not part of KC standard.

Its acceptable to me because it is a colour laid down in the breed standard becky, and as an exhibitor and person genuinely interested in pedigree dogs, I follow the breed standards laid down for those breeds, i wouldnt dream of adding colours because I like the look of it, which is all it is in this case.

The Dobermann was first created around 1860, which is when the breeding program began, the first one was registered in 1893. (I think)

The OP asked whether people thought it was acceptable to breed from animals with breed faults, in the UK a mismarked Poodle IS a breed fault, thats what you are breeding IMO, I cant help the way I see it, its just how I do.
Dawn.

If this is colour realted deafness (there are other types) then yes, there is ample evidence in Dalmatian breeding to indicate that breeding from blue eyed dogs increases the chances of deafness in the litter.

To add: If they were breeding to a solid coloured dog, there could be good reason to do this, as breeding to solid would eliminate, or very much reduce the risk of deafness. Colour related deafness itself is not genetic, it's just a consequence of breeding for lack of pigment (white colour).