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alexandra
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14-04-2007, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Losos View Post
Alexandra - Some people are natural sales people, and some are not. I am an electronics engineer, got into sales and didn't like it at all and got out as soon as I could. Basically, to be successful you have to be uncaring, brash, determined to the point of cruelty, and without any emotions (Except excitement when an order comes in)
BTW even if they terminate you, redundancy pay is obligatory, dependant how long you've been there. Try to avoid resignation 'cos I believe redundancy pay is not given in those circumstances.
You sound like someone who would be much happier doing something else so plan for that.
Thing is i really enjoy sitting with a customer, having a chat, working out what they need and being able to sort their finances out, i enjoy that, its the targets and sales driven area, if they were realistic like they were last year then no probs, i was a head of budget last year, then in january they brought in new targets which only the top guys would attain, that way the "manage" you out and dont make it pleasant!
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alexandra
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14-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
well by the looks of things you aren't that far from me, so if you do need a solicitor I can pass you on the details of mine. She was absolutely fantastic with me, and negotiated a really good settlement without it ever hitting court, the date of the hearing was enough to get them to the negotiating table!!!
I still have all the paperwork and everything. It was a dreadful time for me and I ended up having a full blown nervous breakdown thanks to them, I had worked for them for 20 years and that was what I got in return when they wanted rid of me. They got rid of 7 of us that way, I was the only one who bit back, the rest just weren't in a fit state to do it, but I stuck to my guns and (thanks to loads of support from the other 6) got them bang to rights as they say. Just stick it out. When your Manager bloke comes to see you make sure you always have a witness there, do not be left alone with him at anytime. Also like everybody says have a dictaphone running as well. (pity you can't video it as well). The weather is brilliant at the moment, sit out in the garden and feel sorry for all those poor saps still labouring under the lash!

I already have strap marks from this afternoon!

Thing is, even if the complaint gets sorted, the atmosphere will still be there, i dont think i want to go back, i would still always feel anxious about if/when it may start again..

I dont know where i would stand if i left now without going through the formal procedures, meetings etc i dont know what to do....
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tawneywolf
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14-04-2007, 06:15 PM
have you had a verbal or written warning about missing target or have you been put on objectives at all?
If you haven't that is good because you were ahead of target last year, so it shows that something has gone wrong (ie management!) this year. I was consistently top performer for years, rep of the year etc. All of a sudden I was the worst sales person in the world. My solicitors even received a letter from the Head of HR stating that my performance had never been more than average!!! Luckily I had kept all my certificates, trophies, congratulatory letters etc. so yah boo sucks to them!!!
They will try all that with you, in the end you start to believe they are justified in treating you badly, they are not.
Sit tight, get on long term sick and stay there. They will start putting pressure on you as to when you can come back and just say it is up to your doctor and they need to speak to your doctor (who, if they have the brass neck to ring them, will wipe the floor with them!!)
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alexandra
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14-04-2007, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
have you had a verbal or written warning about missing target or have you been put on objectives at all?If you haven't that is good because you were ahead of target last year, so it shows that something has gone wrong (ie management!) this year. I was consistently top performer for years, rep of the year etc. All of a sudden I was the worst sales person in the world. My solicitors even received a letter from the Head of HR stating that my performance had never been more than average!!! Luckily I had kept all my certificates, trophies, congratulatory letters etc. so yah boo sucks to them!!!
They will try all that with you, in the end you start to believe they are justified in treating you badly, they are not.
Sit tight, get on long term sick and stay there. They will start putting pressure on you as to when you can come back and just say it is up to your doctor and they need to speak to your doctor (who, if they have the brass neck to ring them, will wipe the floor with them!!)
Last year we used APE's Average Premium Equivalents as targets i was only measured from sept- december06 I was almst double my APE target, Then in january they went on policy count, now about 70% of people are below target (5 policies a week) so it has changed completely!

Since then I have been put on performance management ( a verbal meeting with agreed targets to "help" you improve, if you miss these you go on formal disciplinary procedure etc...),
Now an interesting thing came to light on thursday, one of the girls in my team is also below target and below me in the company rankings BUT she is not on Performance management!
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tawneywolf
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14-04-2007, 07:09 PM
pity you are on objectives, that is the first step to getting rid of you as not being able to do your job. Do you have a performance league that is published every month? If you do, get hold of it, because that will prove that you are not the only one struggling with the new 'rules'. This is what they do though they keep moving the goalposts to keep the shareholders happy, it doesn't matter about the poor devils struggling to get those targets.
Have you got evidence that you were well over target last year? Have you changed managers since or something like that? All this would prove that you were more than capable of doing the job, but your manager is not capable of managing you in a fashion that enables you to meet their targets.
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alexandra
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15-04-2007, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
pity you are on objectives, that is the first step to getting rid of you as not being able to do your job. Do you have a performance league that is published every month? If you do, get hold of it, because that will prove that you are not the only one struggling with the new 'rules'. This is what they do though they keep moving the goalposts to keep the shareholders happy, it doesn't matter about the poor devils struggling to get those targets.
Have you got evidence that you were well over target last year? Have you changed managers since or something like that? All this would prove that you were more than capable of doing the job, but your manager is not capable of managing you in a fashion that enables you to meet their targets.
I only ever got one print out of my performance and am trying to find it!

We get a table of our places in the comapny every week..... so have been keeping an eye on those...

I changed manager about three weeks ago but everything started way before that , i was relieved to get rid of my old one - he started most of the problems!
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tawneywolf
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15-04-2007, 08:28 PM
when you were ahead of target, who was your manager?
Did you change managers and then start failing to meet targets? Did you let it be known that you were having problems meeting target because he was useless?

So many questions.....

You can see where I am coming from I hope? If you can show that you were actually extremely competent but unfortunately had a numbnuts for a manager for a period of time during which your performance dropped, and now you are suffering because of this, they will then go off in hot pursuit of this, bless them! It will give you a bit of a breathing space, because every time you bring up a query or question their behaviours (do it in writing by the way it takes them so much longer to reply - and they have to) they have to go away and investigate and come back with an answer, you can then question that answer, you can keep it all going for ages.
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Lucky Star
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15-04-2007, 09:29 PM
I can see where TW is coming from - this is so elaborate I'm absolutely horrified that anyone is subjected to it.
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tawneywolf
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15-04-2007, 09:48 PM
oh it was normal every day behaviour where I used to work!
That is how it is in a sales environment, dog eat dog isn't in it!
Where they slipped up with me was that they first of all got rid of nearly everybody else before they picked on me.
Unfortunately for them, they were all Departmental Managers and Training Managers, who promptly told me exactly what I should be doing, found me a fantastic solicitor, and constantly gave me guidance as to what would be going on on the other side. I think The Company truly believed that none of us ever spoke to each other!!!!
They all gave me brilliant testimonials as to my competence at the job, and usually one came with me everytime I went to see the solicitor. If I can be of any help whatsoever to another poor devil who is going through a similar thing I will be happy to.
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alexandra
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16-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
I can see where TW is coming from - this is so elaborate I'm absolutely horrified that anyone is subjected to it.
Yeah well beleive it - the "ethical" company only take ethics so far!

Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
when you were ahead of target, who was your manager?
Did you change managers and then start failing to meet targets? Did you let it be known that you were having problems meeting target because he was useless?

So many questions.....

You can see where I am coming from I hope? If you can show that you were actually extremely competent but unfortunately had a numbnuts for a manager for a period of time during which your performance dropped, and now you are suffering because of this, they will then go off in hot pursuit of this, bless them! It will give you a bit of a breathing space, because every time you bring up a query or question their behaviours (do it in writing by the way it takes them so much longer to reply - and they have to) they have to go away and investigate and come back with an answer, you can then question that answer, you can keep it all going for ages.
I had the same area manager from when i started...to recently. My performance started to drop because i no longer have any motivation, its all been knocked out, i cant do right for doing wrong!

My performance only fell when the new targets came in because they were alot higher!
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