Good post. my thoughts exactly!

Honestly, I can see why you paid even though it wasn't entirely your fault. Your dog shouldn't have bitten the other dog but the other guy also knew your dog could potentially be reactive.

At the end of the day, what's happened has happened and you just need to chalk it up to experience. You felt guilty (naturally, anyone would!) and you paid up because your dog caused another dog to become hurt. Yes it probably would've been better to go 50/50 on the vet bills but what's done is done and at least you'll know to just go 50/50 if there's a next time!

@ Lozzibear ..............

A little bit OT but....... Lozzibear, you said you had ideas for the man who owns the DA GSD. Well why not suggest some of them to him? He may be quite receptive to new ideas. After all, he recognises that he made mistakes with her and he's clearly trying to ensure he doesn't make the same mistakes again with his whippets.
Over time, I'm sur the GSd will become accustomed to the dogs in your group and will one day run and play with them.

It could be therefore that your idreas may speed up the socialisation process for both owner and dog. It would also mean that you can all relax sooner when she's around your dogs.

On the other hand he may tell you to get lost. But as he's made an effort already to put things right, I don't think he will somehow.

Well, that's what I was saying. I mentioned the 'thin skin' because there seemed to be some suggestion that it was a contributing factor to the extent of the injury.

As for wanting dogs to be able to defend themselves? Well my dog stands about 10 inches high - how the heck could it defend itself against a GA GSD or similar dog? Unless (resorting to an old joke - it got stuck in its throat). I've never thought about my dogs (any of them) being able to 'defend themselves' - I just want them to be no danger to people or other animals and to stay SAFE themselves.

Ok I've been reading this thread but haven't commented yet but I'm going to.

Personally I think you should have paid the vet bill. I have a dog who I keep on lead because he is reactive and I hate getting mobbed by off lead dogs. Even when I clearly tell people to keep their dogs away, we still get mobbed, it drives me crazy I often march off grumbling about how if their dog had got bitten it would have been their own stupid fault and they should teach their dog some recall.

HOWEVER a lot of that it just hot air because I'm annoyed and feel defensive to poor Cain getting stressed by off lead dogs bounding all over him. It winds us both up. BUT I don't believe that a dog simply running up to another dog justifies it getting bitten

I generally do not muzzle Cain on walks because I feel that I have enough control over him to avoid him biting. IF another dog ran over with the intention of fighting and started one and Cain bit him in defence then I probably wouldn't pay the vet bill. BUT if a friendly dog was simply running over and my dog bit it then I would pay the bill.

In all the times I've had Cain we've only had one incident where he hurt another dog and it was ages ago and under very unusual circumstances. My dog walker popped him into a park to do a quick wee, Cain was on a short lead next to him. A small CKCS puppy bombed from the other side of the park, no one saw it coming, and ran straight under Cain's belly while he was weeing Scared the life out of Cain and he reacted by pinning it to the ground and wouldn't let it up. The puppy ended up with a small puncture wound in it's neck. I was distraught and tried to pay the vet fee several times however the owner said the puppy was absolutely fine and wouldn't take the money. However she learned a valuable lesson about letting her puppy run up to random dogs.

The fact of the matter is that I could have said "well my dog was on lead and hers was off, mine was under control and hers wasn't" but I don't believe that. And under control dog doesn't bite other dogs and I accept that Cain was out if control that day. On lead doesn't equal under control. And it doesn't stand up in court as under control either, I read an article about it.

If my dog did the damage, regardless of the upcoming events, I would pay the bill. Because I knew my dog was reactive and had the potential (however small) to bite and I chose not the muzzle that dog, so it would be my fault.

I muzzled Cain on walks for months after that event and only removed it once I was confident that I could avoid it happening again. If he had caused anymore damage than one small puncture wound I probably wouldn't have ever removed it. But if we have an incident in the future, well I know Cain's issues and I failed to control them so I would be responsible. We know there any loads of stupid owners with off lead dogs, they won't go away and although they might contribute to problems, essentially it is my responsibility to guard against these potential issues.

If another persons dog bit mine, even if they were on lead, I would expect them to pay the bill (unless Cain had done something awful and it was self defence). But an unprovoked attack for simply passing buy, I'd definately make them pay.

Obviously it's not all your fault but your dog did bite and you previously knew he was reactive so therefore I do think you should have paid the vet bill,

Moon's mum - I think that is an eminently sensible and very 'common sense' post on the subject.

My Cavvy used to rush up to all dogs regardless of size. She soon learned not to when one or two reacted a bit aggressively (didn't wound her but 'saw her off'). My min pin was EXACTLY the same. Unfortunately the first 'doggy mate' she had was the superb Dobermann opposite us. She soon learned that not all big dogs want this supersize rat leaping up at their mouths and getting under their feet. Now, when she sees them approaching, she drops down in a very submissive pose and waits for them to reach her and, well, I suppose she is letting them set the mood and pace. 99.9% of them are just fine.

I posted elsewhere to say that when I used to have my GSD on lead and others had theirs off lead and going nuts I would shout out to them to put their dog on the lead or I would let mine off. I know the inference by my tone was that my dog would 'kill theirs' if I did. She wouldn't have at all! But others in the park would be scared of a big GSD off lead and why the heck should I get a dislocated shoulder trying to hang onto mine while theirs were driving her nuts?

As for not being able to tell other owners what to do with their dogs! Lordy! You should hear me at times. I don't just suggest it. I bawl them right out telling them how stupid they are, threaten to report them and all sorts if they've got an out of control dog off the lead - why the hell some people let a dog run free when that dog TOTALLY IGNORES all their commands and they cannot recall it is a mystery to me. But then they can always fall back on the old chestnut that the 8stone out of control mutt 'only wants to play' or is 'just being over boisterous'.

Like many people if its a minor incident, they don't go through insurance and pay directly for damage, thus not having to inform insurance and have premiums rise.




Having a dog that would snap at any running dogs that fly past, there is no way in hell I will be muzzling her, she is on a lead, and if you wish to go down the road of who`s fault it is, the dog snapping or the dog running past, then I will take the stance of 50/50 , your fault for allowing your dog to run past mine, and my fault for not being able to stop your dog running past mine, so you pay your bill and I`,, pay mine for the extrs training she will now need to get her back to the stage your off lead out of control dog has just just mucked up.


A lesson learned in this case was , you offered to pay to quickly, and maybe knowing one dog will react , it was not such a good idea to allow the other of lead around a dog you know runs out of control

I hope you saw the receipt for the vets bill , before you paid up.

I have a GSD that is very sociable, however, when on lead she can ce a little tetchy. If a dog ran up to us and she did it some damage then I would not be paying the bill. At the end of the day if the owners are willing to allow their dog to run up to strange on lead dogs then I take it as they are willing to pay the resulting vet bill too.

That said, If I had said that my other dogs could play with this offlead dog and in the excitement the dog ran past and got bitten, I would pay the vet bill.
Its not fully clear but I am guessing my latter scenario was the case this time?

Moon's Mum, I agree with you.