No, I didnt ask Des because it wasnt supposed to be about him personally. I know he is well respected and successful gundog owner/trainer but his comment struck me as bizarre and so I wanted to discuss the subject on here. I used his quote merely because it summed up perfectly what I wanted to discuss and it was succinct enough for a thread title. I went on to post the full paragraph that the quote was included in because I thought it painted a fairer picture, rather than just picking out a bit and taking it out of context.

In hindsight, it wasnt a good idea to use his quote and I realise that but in my defence, as I have said, it was never meant to be a subject about Des and his dogs

It is his post therefore it is about his opinion and he did not choose to post it here. It's not really a defence at all. You could have discussed the topic easily without the cross-posted quotes but you chose to post his words here without permission anyway. I also felt uncomfortable with someones posts being taken from another forum...just sayin'!

Overall I think its a case of 'what games does your dog play' rather than toys perhaps?

I.e. If the training is a game to them and they find it very highly rewarding and go home satisfied and ready to rest then I doubt there is a point to risking their training through leaving toys around willy nilly. I do, however think that dogs are capable of knowing the difference between a game they play with you (using a toy) and their 'work'

Edit; If its a case of anyone who does not work their dog being lazy, hence the play, then obviously I don't necessarily agree with that but then I dont know the context behind his quote in full....