Kiki was very good at telling Cain when he was being rude and boisterous. She also put herself in between any other dogs who were charging about in what she considered to be an overly boisterous way. She showed no gratuitous aggression just general concern for peace and harmony in the group, and I thought she was a real sweetie.

Kiki was the perfect stooge dog. His behaviour towards her improved massively once he got the message, which is just what he needs.

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say too! The level of arousal has a huge effect on behaviour & lasts a lot longer than we think. I'm not sure of how long & I guess that depends on how aroused & how long the arousal lasts for. But from personal experiences of fear, I can say with certainty that I definitely feel a bit twitchy, unsettled & more reactive/emotional after a scare for quite a while afterwards. And just remembering or reliving that experience days/weeks afterwards can bring about the same fearful feelings & consequently the same physiological arousal ~ even if I don't outwardly show behavioural signs of fear. But you can bet your bottom dollar, my heart rate's increased, blood is being diverted to mucsles & the body is preparing for flight/fight ~ all this just because I'm reliving a particularly scary experience And lots of things can trigger this fear response, e.g. the sight of something similar, a particular smell that reminds of a smell I was not even conscious of at the time of the original scare, a similar noise etc etc.

So if you think about how all this affects dog behaviour ~ it's no wonder that they can react in what we might think is an unpredictable manner, but could easily be explained by something that not even our dog is necessarily conscious of, let alone us!

One of my dogs is a bit noise reactive (as a lab he'd be a terrible gundog ) but on the whole it's not a huge problem for most of the year. But I'm very aware that the shooting season has just started & we've heard a few bangs on recent walks. Barney starts off by just staying a bit closer to me, being a bit less interested in his surroundings. If soon wears off but if the shots continue, I notice the tension in his body language & more pronounced "clinginess". If this is a one-off incident, it's forgotten in a few days, especially if we walk in different places. But then recently we were also caight out in a thunder storm ~ more fear reaction from Barney, then a disproportionate reaction to a single gun shot on another walk. This weekend we've got an airshow in Shoreham so lots of noisy jets, the Red Arrows, bomber planes etc directly overhead. As Barney's already sensitised to loud noises, I'm making plans to be completely away from Shoreham this weekend on the grounds that don't want Barney to get worse. And when I have to be at home, I'll make sure dors & windows are shut, that I've got the time to sit with him & keep him calm.

I hope this helps put Cain's behaviour into perspective & for you to see things from his viewpoint. That's why I said sometimes doing nothing but keeping a dog safe & calm can work wonders .

Awwww, yes, that sounds just like my Cassie was, she didn't stand for any nonsense from other dogs, although she too, was the sweetest dog around never showing any actual aggression towards them, just kind of sorting them out! It would have been a very good thing to have a dog about in a group like that with Cain imo

*SIGH* I'm so tired today. I haven't slept properly since Saturday, worrying about Cain's behaviour. I know it will get better but right now I feel like banging my head on the desk a few times then going to bed for week! I'll deal with it all when I wake up

Yes, everything's better when you've slept on it, and you're not feeling tired, just remember, one step at a time hey

Have you actually done the walking out with just ONE other dog who is known to be totally friendly?? I'm wondering whether your Cain is just purely frustrated that he has to be kept away from all other dogs that's all? Maybe try that one day in the future. You never know, once he's got it out of his system, a really good play, free and offlead with another friendly dog, it might be the making of him perhaps? Good luck with him, I'm sure he's worth it, your head must be spinning!

He is allowed to meet other dogs in the park (he's on lead) but its usually a short interaction before they move on. The only dog owners who are willing to walk with us are the ones with young, boisterous male dogs who play as hard as Cain. At first I allowed this to boost his confidence with other dogs and reduce his fear. But now he really needs to larn to calm it down and interact nicely. He definately gets frustrated at times and he really wants to interact with all other dogs he sees. Unfortunately we've been struggling to make regular doggy friends as I have to change walking times and locations depending on what other dogs are out and about (some need to be avoided!), and as I said the ones who will walk with Cain are not necessarily the right dogs for him at this time.

Karly kindly agreed to let me do some mini walks with Kiki as she seemed to be good for Cain and teach him good manners, however I think pehaps he'll need a week or two to calm down before I do that, given his current behaviour. For now I think i'll just soak him in DAP for a week and have a nice quiet week.

Yes, that's a good idea, calm him right down and start all over again with a fresh start. I feel for you I really do, and I wish you could walk with me quite honestly, coz even Lilypup on here said that my two have a knack of calming her dogs down, especially Georgie, because when I first walked out with her, she said Dylan (who could be a bit iffy with other dogs), seemed totally relaxed, she had never seen that before with him, the way he was with my two. Georgie would be an excellent candidate for your Cain I'm more than sure of it, such a shame you're too far away.

We have a young, very boistrous labrador which I see up on the green some lunchtimes, and yesterday she let him off, and I was wondering what would happen when it came charging over to us (with Zena being like she can be with some dogs), and although she played with him, I could see it was getting very out of hand, coz this dog kept trying to jump on her as she was running around with it, and the owner came charging over to grab him, when I said to her, if he jumps on her like that, I'm afraid she's going to tell him off, but she never did You just can't work them out sometimes can you The white samaroyed dog this morning, that again was very, very boistrous, it leaped about in the air, stood still, then leaped in the air again before charging off, and my two thought that was great fun! Neither of mine "splat" other dogs though, they run, they play, but they never "splat" I wonder what it means that splatting, I used to see it a lot when I had Cassie and Georgie together, mainly from Cassie!

Yes, you need a nice, calm Cain, along with a nice calm, friendly dog, and go on a long, calm walk, but let him off, let him be free! Maybe the constant long line or lead is frustrating him even more, but you've probably already guessed that haven't you. If he's muzzled, surely he can't do any harm even if he does turn aggressive which I'm sure he won't, I bet my bottom dollar, it's purely frustration in him. Good luck with him.

Well I'm taking up my driving lessons tonight so who knows, maybe I'll pop up on a weekend once I'm driving and beg you to bring Georgie out to play!

As quoted above, i've actually been trying to engineer this for months!!! I'm afriad there aren't many understanding dog owners around here with calm enough dogs. A number of people see Cain, on a lead, and run away from him before they even meet him! I'm convinced he wants to be friends, he doesn't want to be agressive, he's just poorly socialised. The other biggest issue is getting a suitable, empty space to let him off with just the other dog. London dog parks are ram packed. I struggle to get Cain off lead more than once a week and I've tried walking at 6am and gone midnight, there's always someone about!!! Sooooooo frustrating. But over Karly's way sounds a lot quieter so I will be trotting Cain off to Surrey for a few dog walks and hopefully getting him off lead (muzzled initially). So that is the plan

Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel a bit better about the whole thing again.

Well, you're more than welcome to walk with just me and Kiki whenever you want to - no worries if you want to wait a few weeks, just give me a shout and we'll arrange something. I can either pick you and Cain up or you can walk the 20 minutes from the station - the walk may calm Cain down a bit and if you really want, we can initially head over with just Cain and have him off-lead with a long line trailing in one of the fields - they're flat enough that a lead won't get caught on anything, fenced in and I can stand one side and you the other, to grab the line if needs be. This is where Casper gets most of his off-lead exercise (I'm sure he'd be fine nowadays, he seems to have grown out of his random shooting off in the opposite direction but I'm a paranoid mummy) and I've not had a problem doing this with him (and once you feel confident to have his muzzle off, I can try and snap some nice photos for you too!)
Edit: Infact, you're welcome to come over to exercise Cain solo if you want, and we can bring Kiki over when you feel he's calmed down a bit, even if that's a few weeks down the line. I really don't mind, the main field I use is literally the other side of my garden fence so it's no bother for me to go over with you and act as a second pair of hands if you want to try some off-lead exercise. Like I've said before, I know how frustrating it can be to have a "trouble" dog and feel like there's no end to their problems so if I can help out in any way just ask.