Well speaking for myself Pete, I talk about the dogs from shows I have been to - and no not the odd one 5 years ago like you say but I do go regularly to see what is on offer - usually there are a few decent dogs but on the whole I am never impressed by what catches the judges eye. Usually I find the more impressive dogs tend to be left behind against the more extreme looking dogs i.e. those with shorter thicker legs, barrel chests, wide heads but short noses. I think its great for those people who do go to these shows and campaign a healthier alternative but usually their efforts go unnoticed. Even worse than this is the dogs who have breathing problems, I think its sad that some of the well known champions suffer from breathing problems too as at the end of the day this is suppose to be a canine athlete first and foremost whether they are bred for work or show health not rosettes should be the primary concern. Like it said on another site form should always follow function I think that is a fair assumption.

Some dogs I go by what I see in pictures, while you say some look very different in real life I am always of the thought that a picture tells a thousand words and quite often they do. I go by what my friends have told me from dogs they have seen in the flesh too. I have seen some cracknig KC dogs but overall I think what is winning at shows is really going downhill. They should be imo canine athletes regardless of what they are bred for I think its a shame that so many of the winning show dogs are such extreme examples of the breed. Is it just me or is this going off topic? I mean I thouht it was for discussing the Irish dogs not the goods and bads of the KC dogs.

off topic, I dont think so, the aim of the conversation at present is to query the sensibility and reality of describing a strain of dogs as a seperate breed, IE the Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I feel that disregarding the Stormer lines all these dogs are Staffords, no more no less. and the idea of giving certain lines a special name to suggest they are maybe better than another is a dangerous game in today BSL climate. Breeding over tall dogs is an equally dangerous game, a dog doesnt need to be the size of new south wales to be athletic and healthy. The so called Irish Staff is is no better or no worse than a well bred KC registered dog. KC dogs are also being bred to ridiculous sizes outside the show ring by novices that think bigger = old tyme.
As I said in my 1st post, if we take a look at the clandestine working dogs still going in the breed, theres is little to choose from, the irish bred lines( if we MUST distinguish between) are just as challenged in that feild as the working bred KC registered stock. there is very little left. All we have now is the chance to keep the dogs temperment and looks to the standards of the OLD dogs, not what we imagine a fighting dog should look like, and it seems to me that there is an equal amount of fancy in the old time lines as in the show lines, albeit that the exaggerated old time dogs are healthier. But what use is health if oversized dogs are being bred from, give what to the authorities see as a fake name for a pit, and they get further BSL pushed through.