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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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01-02-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Hali 
It is the local council who has responsibilty for stray dogs not the local rescues. The council may have kennels themselves or may have arrangements with a local rescue. But the liability is only to keep them for 7 days to give an owner a chance to find them. After that, the Council can decide what to do. Some rescues may take some (on a for as long as necessary basis) but clearly (by the number of pts) this is not the case with them all and many end up being pts.
Yes I'm sure that there are plenty of dogs picked up by the dog warden that are pts after the 7 day period of grace but I don't think that is necessarily a reason for allowing only these dogs a place in a rescue when maybe dogs from Ireland could suffer the same if not worse fate of being turfed out or cruelly treated.
I agree with you that more liability should be placed on the original owner and mandatory micro-chipping would be a step in that direction. In the meantime however, people who don't want their dogs will often do anything to get rid of them.
But don't believe that by turning a dog away from somewhere like the DT that the owner suddenly decides they will keep the dog. They don't, they just find another way of getting rid. Some will try to rehome privately but others don't trouble themselves.
I wasn't saying that if the DT or another rescue turns the dog away, the owner will be forced into taking responsibility in a "good" way. I meant that some people just assume that if they no longer want their dog, for whatever reason, that the local rescue will automatically take it in. That's an assumption that needs to be corrected so people don't feel that they can just walk away from their dog & pass on the responsibility for its fate to someone else. For some, they feel they can absolve themselves of any responsibility & assuage their guilt by thinking that they've given the dog a chance of a new life with a nice new owner. That's not the case at all! Before people give up their dog to a rescue they should be fully aware that the dog could be euthanised & that if it is, & even if it is the rescue centre that eventually takes that decision, it was still ultimately because the owner gave up their dog, not because the rescue centre couldn't rehome it.
Our local dog warden frequently has people handing in 'strays' who almost certainly are actually the owner of the said stray. But how do you prove that? You can't, so the dog warden has to take the dog in, give it its 7 day period and then try to find a home for it or a place in another rescue to make room for the next 'stray' that comes through the door.
Others that don't have the bottle to lie simply turn the dog out on the street (sometimes miles from home) with no identification.
Agreed ~ shame on those people
. The difficulty for both the rescue centres & the Dog Wardens is that they are left with the difficult decision of trying to sort out who's lying & who has a genuine & very sad reason for giving up their dog. And perhaps the dogs living with the people prepared to lie, cheat & make up spurious reasons for not keeping it, are the dogs that deserve a place in a rescue ~ because these are the people less likely to make any effort themselves to find the dog a home or do the right thing by it.it is these dogs I'm talking about when I say that the Irish dogs are taking their space in a no-kill rescue.
IMO if, as is the case, there is just no room at the inn for all dogs needing new homes, then the only criteria that could be used to make those choices are either:
- as many dogs rescued for a happy life as limited & finite funds will allow, i.e. a decision based on cold economic facts
- or what would be the alternative if that dog was not rescued, e.g. a life of suffering, pain & cruelty vs humane pts
Now if the dogs rescued from Ireland are the breeding bitches & puppies from puppy farms, then perhaps these are the dogs that should have priority, or maybe pts wld be better in these cases?
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Location: Tayside
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 680
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01-02-2011, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Julie
But we are a small Island how can we take dogs when our own rescues are filling and dogs are daily being killed just because no home can be found for them ?
I very much doubt that we will ever sort out our own problem here in the U.K. (without drastic action), and that dogs will be PTS regardless.
I realize we'll never be able to save all of them, but one at a time....
Take a look at the Nowzad site, or the Desperate Greekies site and see if you still feel the same way.
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Location: england
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,440
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01-02-2011, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by MichaelM
A small island with the 6th largest economy, and 22nd largest population.
I very much doubt that we will ever sort out our own problem here in the U.K. (without drastic action), and that dogs will be PTS regardless.
I realize we'll never be able to save all of them, but one at a time....
Take a look at the Nowzad site, or the Desperate Greekies site and see if you still feel the same way.
And as an aside if rescues relaxed some of their rules we could help our own dogs more.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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01-02-2011, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by MichaelM
A small island with the 6th largest economy, and 22nd largest population.
I very much doubt that we will ever sort out our own problem here in the U.K. (without drastic action), and that dogs will be PTS regardless.
I realize we'll never be able to save all of them, but one at a time....
Take a look at the Nowzad site, or the Desperate Greekies site and see if you still feel the same way.
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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01-02-2011, 02:46 PM
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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01-02-2011, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar
I know this is a touchy subject & i don't want to open up a whole new debate BUT the plight of all these unwanted dogs, overcrowded rescue centres & far, far too many cases of euthanasia, is the reason why I always encourage people to first look at getting a rescue dog. As can be seen from this thread, not only would you be helping that one rescue dog, but you are allowing the rescue to take in another dog.
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Location: Tayside
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 680
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01-02-2011, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
Can you tell me how many other countries take our dogs?
No I can't, I don't know.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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01-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by MichaelM
No I can't, I don't know.
What a strange attitude. It's not a case of being responsible, it's a case of helping as and when possible.
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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01-02-2011, 02:58 PM
But I would like to put this up
http://dundalkdogrescue.webs.com/dogsinpound.htm
Nothing sensational, that is just the charity that saved Mia. My agility club have raised funds for them but it is an irish charity in the main using the money they have raised to rehome dogs - mainly in ireland, but they use all the contacts they can to save a dog
This page is just the current dogs in the pound
The volunteers go into the pound and photograph the dogs and then race to find them homes
The dogs at the top are owner surrenders - these dogs will be put to sleep tomorow
Out and safe - mean they have managed to squeeze them into a foster home or paid with their own money to have them kenneled
They are not costing the UK tax payer - and they dont charge people in the UK to ship a dog to them.
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Yes I do, but cant see how it could be policed though.
My personal opinion is this, we have a huge problem as it is, to many dogs not enough homes, bringing in dogs from abroad does two things, (talking Ireland in particular) 1) it makes our problem worse, 2) opened the door for more back yard breeding in said country.
When we take dogs from Ireland all it does it open spaces for more dogs , the cycle goes on, the PF keep breeding because they can dump in rescue, the rescue sends abroad to open spaces for more dogs being dumped, the pf keep breeding and so it goes on.
the same can be said here ofcause, but we have to deal with our own problem first, and make other countries deal with theirs.
Most of these dogs are dumped, people dont care what happens to them, they know if the dogs are LUCKY they will get picked up by the pound and put to sleep
The rescues are not making spaces for more dogs - the way the system works over there the dogs will be dealt with anyways, the dogs will be put to sleep without the origonal owners caring
IMO even worse the owner surrenders - they hand their unwanted dogs in knowing the dog will be put to sleep the next day
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
a few figures:
87% of strays in Ireland are destroyed.
14% in England
Under Irish law a stray dog has 5 days to be reclaimed or re-homed, a dog surrendered by it's owners 24hrs, if neither happens the dog then faces euthanasia.
Now have a look at the 2 pictures at the bottom of this page.
http://www.paws.ie/
(it`s OK. It`s before and after.
Now - do you think need stops at a border?
My Shamus was taken out of an Irish Pound on the day he was due to be killed by an Irish Rescue. He was transported by Allbreeds to the UK and I adopted him. None of that cost any of you any money. All these rescuers are volunteers.
Dogs Trust already cherry-pick `rehomeable` dogs. As do the RSPCA. They are free to make their choices - as do other Rescues who are more prepared to take those dogs that have less of a chance.
It really brings it home that when Mia became a stray there was only a 13% chance of her living
thats not good odds
Originally Posted by Tassle
Yes - that was my reason far asking - I was trying to work out if the people who do not agree think it is more about money or more about the homes available.
A few rescues have been set up through people seeing the dire situations abroad and wanting to do something about it - it will all have started with an individual going out there or bringing a dog back.....
Originally Posted by Hali
6,500 dogs destroyed in Ireland in 2009
9,000 dogs destroyed in UK in 2009.
Yes, given the respective size of the countries, Ireland's figures are worse, but that doesn't get over the fact that there were 9,000 pts in the uk.
(am looking to see if I can find figures on these re how many were pts because of lack of rescue space/homes).
I agree, being pts by a qualified vet is not the worse fate that can befall a dog.
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If we think in ireland that nearly 90% of strays are put to sleep then this might be saying that only about 500 dogs were actually NOT put to sleep (roughly - not doing the maths here) So it would be interesting to know how many actually came over here? I know some are rehomed in ireland - so is it even a big problem?
Also of course it would be interesting to know how many of the dogs in the UK were put to sleep for medical reasons and how many were actually put to sleep bacause there is no space
I am in no way saying there isnt a problem here in the UK, but it kind of seems that none of us actually know the scale of the problem so I dont know that any of us can meaningfully debate
Do the dogs trust post numbers of how many dogs they put to sleep? that might kind of give us a small idea?
Originally Posted by MichaelM
I'm quite surprised to see that some think we should sort out our "own" problem first.
A dog in need is a dog in need as far as I'm concerned. I've read some heartbreaking stories of the conditions that overseas dogs have to endure, and some heartwarming tales of the rescues that help these dogs.
I think it's fantastic that there are people who are prepared to help these poor animals - whether they're from Ireland, a Desperate Greekie, or a Nowzad dog.
Well done to all of you.
Michael
Although many people go to a rescue when they want a dog - how many others have their hearts touched by the story of a dog and although they were never looking for another dog they just couldnt leave that one?
Sometimes a dog just calls to you from a different country
and human cruelty to animals is ALL humans buisness
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