willing to lay down your live for your offspring
is that not a form of love
when to a packmember it would make more sence to save youself and go on to have more offspring

right, this is way OT.. but that's not necessarily love.. it could be seen as an act of altruism, but as it entails the protection of offspring, it can be explained by genetics..

anyway, back to CM.. does he have an awareness of self? only kidding..

I believe dogs share affection with us..could this be love maybe maybe not idont think we will ever know
what is love?
anyway had a quick look back and dont think anymore cm fans left on all on my own

If you watch the whole clip you will see that the dog reacted worse on a carpeted surface

When was he on a carpetted surface? :s I didn't see it anywhere and I was watching for it!

thankyou, you explained it far better than I was

apparently the trainer had rolled the dog but when he let him go he just got up and bit him, no surprise there. When the owner is trying to roll him at the start of the clip the dog does not react aggressively until he puts pressure on his back end then after that every time he reaches for him he whips around and tries to bite. The voice over says that the dog won't let them touch him inside their home which is interesting because if this is the case then it would imply that the dog sees inside as different (not in a good way) for some reason. I didn't see any film of the dog indoors other than when the owner was trying to roll it over so it's possible that the dog is fine but not in that situation (trying to roll it)

While CM is outside talking to the camera with the dog on the lead it is uncertain of him and wants to walk away but the lead doesn't allow that. At one point CM actually says that the dog is unsure and in fact it is but it is unsure about him and it knows it can't move away because of the lead.

he then takes the dog into the house and it walks calmly but it is clear that it is very unsure. Then CM puts the dog in a down and puts pressure along it's back and it doesn't react, it isn't relaxed but it doesn't try to bite either. The owner then muzzles the dog and you can see his whole attitude change, when CM then touches him the dog is not happy and he even says the "muzzle created this" and he is right in that the dog associates the muzzle with what it about to happen next.

the dogs gets away and cesar goes to get him back and this is the point that he starts to choke him. The lead is pulled up tight behind the dogs jaw and he keeps it that way. The dog naturally objects as most dogs would but he doesn't release it at any time. The dog continues to fight him choking and in fact gasping for air while he blames the wife for her "negative energy".

This dog is not aggressively trying to attack cesar because it does not want to submit, it is doing it because he is cutting off it's air supply. The dog is literally fighting for it's life and at the end it does not "submit" to him it is simply exhausted and cannot fight any more because of lack of air.

in the second clip the owner is being shown how to "apply pressure" with the lead, his wife is again told off for saying that jonbee is scared. The owner pulls the lead tight and forces the dog to roll over. It is not as violent this time because jonbee has already learned that fighting simply means he will choke, he is not submissive, he is afraid.

He does not relax at any time while he is being handled, he does not submit to his owner or cesar once during either clip. When cesar has him lying on his back in his lap the dog is not relaxed, he is stiff legged and unhappy. at the very end of the 2nd clip the owners talk about how he is a totally different dog but it is clear that he more comfortable with the wife than with the male owner.

This is not the first time that CM has choked a dog, he did it with the pitbull, he also did it with the white dog in the cage, cotton but in the clip not to such an extent (although I haven't got time at the moment to try and find the rest of that clip to see what happens next). He places the lead behind the jawline and at the top of the dogs neck and pulls it tight and the dogs naturally object to this.

As I said I posted the vids so that people who are pro CM could see what the link that wys had posted was about. It is hard to form an opinion on what is going on in that clip if you haven't actually seen it.

So far we have had two responses, one does not agree with what cesar is doing to the dog and another that thinks the dog is "bad ass".

I don't think that people that are pro CM want to actually discuss his methods. They want a thread where they can talk about how great he is without anyone asking questions.

I did not post my opinion on the vids as I wanted to hear what others thought on both sides but have given up on that now as it is apparent that is not going to happen other than from those that do no agree with what he does

He does work with Chokes & prongs & his "slip" lead is made of a THIN harsh nylon that chokes the dogs so they cant actually breathe! its barbaric He is a evil stupid man, He dosent know one end of a dog from the other, a "energy" pathetic, ive been watching him, the energy thing is "rubbish", just because he "says" it it dosent mean he projects it, ive almost given up watching the dogs now & like to watch that pillock, whenever he gets scared of a dog he starts rabbitting on about his energy! its a complete farce!!!!

surely a man with such great natural empathy ,ability & "energy" would be very disaapointed in having a dog so dissinterested in him. Obvisley whilst out side Jonbee realised this was a "bad" person with "ego energy" & no dog sense.

i have NEVER seen him interact with a dog that shows him as a dog lover!!

HOWEVER, please pro CMers post one that shows me he likes dogs & dogs LIKE him

ot...the LOVE thang

Well we just cant know can we!!!

I like to think mine do love me. If they dont/cant/feel it in a different way, well it actually makes no different to me.

They certainly like/ have bonded with me more than anyone else in the world....is that love then that they feel?

Does flynn "love" his bally or just really like it?

Flynn "loves" doing a Sendaway, HW he really likes, he DEF prefers Sendaway, he DOSENT like DC at all, infact he might hate it (if he can feel love can he feel hate?) he dosent like stays much but prefers them to DC

Does it really matter? if its love as "we" know it or a different kind of love? or just a mild preferance?

I do like to think that they love me & im sure in their own way that they really do!!!!