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Location: London
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,131
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16-11-2008, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by gaznweebeasties 
The Shar Pei breed comes from the Guangdong province of China. The original Shar-pei from China looked very different from the breed now popular in the West. People in southern China, Hong Kong, and Macau differentiate the Western type and the original type by calling them respectively "meat-mouth" and "bone-mouth" Shar-pei.
Traditional Shar-Pei.The ancestry of the Shar-Pei is uncertain. It may be a descendant of the Chow Chow, however, the only clear link between these are the purple tongue. However, pictures on pottery suggest the breed was present even in the Han Dynasty (206bc). For many years the Shar-Pei was kept as a general-purpose farm dog in the Chinese countryside, used for hunting, protecting and herding stock, and guarding the home and family. During that time the Shar-Pei was bred for intelligence, strength and scowling face.
Later, it was used in dog fighting. The loose skin and extremely prickly coat were developed originally to help the pei fend off wild boar, as they were used to hunt. Dog Fighters used these enhanced traits to make the Shar-Pei difficult for the opponent to grab and hold on to, and so that if it did manage to hold on, the Shar-Pei would still have room to maneuver and bite back. The Shar-Pei's most intriguing feature to this fact is that if you grab them by any loose wrinkle they can actually twist in their skin and face in your direction. This was used in fighting as a means for them to fight back, they would be bitten and twist in their skin to bite back at the offender. During the Communist Revolution, when the Shar Pei population dwindled dramatically, dogs were rescued by a Hong Kong business man named Matgo Law, who appealed to Americans in 1973 through a dog magazine to save the breed. Around 200 Shar-Peis were smuggled into America. The current American Shar Pei population stems mainly from these original 200.
DNA analysis has concluded that the Shar Pei is one of the most ancient dog breeds[2]
that information came from the shar pei wiki page, now it doesn't mention dogs being starved or beaten to fight but it does mention a point relevant in discussing whether pitbulls are dangerous and that point is that it was some of the characteristics of the breed that were enhanced originally for hunting that were advantageous when put to fighting NOT the breeds temperament.
same with pits, they weren't picked out to fight because they are naturally aggressive but because of the damage they can inflict through it's size, power and tenacity. its unfortunate that another of their traits, namely their eagerness to please their owners was exploited to make them the top choice for dog fighters
Taken from Wayatinah Shar Pei Kennels
The use of Shar-Pei as fighting dogs was apparently confined to southern China and it has been said that they had to be drugged to fight.
A general dog site
The Shar Pei breed comes from the Guangzhou province of China where it was well-known as a fighting and guard dog. It is suspected that due to the laid-back nature of the Shar Pei, the dogs had to be drugged to induce them to fight
K9 Obedience
The Shar Pei was bred to herd and hunt and then to fight but because the dog did not have an aggressive nature it had to be drugged before it would perform.
I could go on but would be here all day.
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
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12-12-2009, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
I know youre not.
Nobody has answered me yet, can anybody explain why this type of dog, given all your testimonies to their temperament, explain why the majority "flip" when they escape or get loose, causing the damage we are seeing. With such superb temperaments, why do they attack?
What IS more dangerous than other dogs are dogs that are left chained outside, ignored, abused, starved, or mistreated in some way. And the sad reality to many dog bite cases is that these dogs are NOT "family pets." Statistics have proven time and time again that chaining a dog is likely to create a dangerous one. Many of the dogs who have attacked have been found to be mistreated in one way or another.
To answer Dawn's question -- this is all a matter of news reports. You hear about the bad cases only. No one reports that a pit bull got loose and was picked up by some good Samaritan and returned to its home. No one reports that a pit bull got loose, was picked up by animal control, and returned to its owners, adopted out, or euthanized due to lack of space. No one reports the everyday occurrences that don't result in something newsworthy.
If I were to go by car accident reports I wouldn't ever get into a car again. I would simply say "why would anyone drive when it's a sure death sentence to get into a car?" No one reports the millions of people who drive to work and home again with no problems. No one reports the fender benders. They report the bad accidents with serious injuries and death.
But anyone with common sense realizes that those things are few and far between.
And the same thing goes for bites by pit bulls (and, in fact, bites by any dog). Since moving into this neighborhood I have found two loose pit bulls and one pit mix. One was returned to its owners, the other I called animal control to come get him, the third was adopted by someone after being unsuccessful in finding his owners (likely he was dumped by college students). All three dogs were friendly (in fact, the second one came up and started play bowing in front of my dog). None of those stories were newsworthy.
My dog has been attacked at varying times by loose dogs. Not one of those were pit bulls.
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Location: UK
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,616
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12-12-2009, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Crysania
What IS more dangerous than other dogs are dogs that are left chained outside, ignored, abused, starved, or mistreated in some way. And the sad reality to many dog bite cases is that these dogs are NOT "family pets." Statistics have proven time and time again that chaining a dog is likely to create a dangerous one. Many of the dogs who have attacked have been found to be mistreated in one way or another.
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Location: Cumbria, UK
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12-12-2009, 08:36 AM
Originally Posted by Mahooli
I don't think they are aggressive in the sense of being more aggressive than any other breed, it's just because of their breeding and build, if they do 'turn' they will inflict a tremendous amount of damage. Sadly their build and type make them a target for the criminal element and those who need a macho boost who don't care how their dogs are raised and indeed some actively encourage the less desireable aspect of a pitbulls character.
Whilst I don't believe that any breed should be banned, I feel that in todays society pitbulls aren't safe from being used in this manner and are therefore a potential danger to society so really in their interests to be 'banned' is probably a safe guard for them until such time as we can be sure that only suitably responsible people can own them.
That's probably a tad hypocritical as there are many other breeds in the hands of complete morons who could equally be a danger to society and of course those people that treat small dogs as dolls then wonder why they have a snappy yappy little bleep on their sofa!
So I would say that in the right hands they are not dangerous but as that cannot be guaranteed then it would be safer for them not to be here.
Becky
Never a truer word spoken - I totally agree with you Becky. Great post
Owning a dog like a Rott, you do realize that in the wrong hands how they could become a dangerous dog. Exactly like Pitts they are a large and very powerful animal.
It is sad that as a country we could not have found a more effective way of controlling the minority of idiots who try and use these dogs as weapons or fail to rear and socialize them properly so that they become a danger to others
Banning seemed to be the only option available at the time, but it was a knee-jerk reactionI have met some Pit Bulls abroad - and I have to say they were the nicest, friendliest dogs you could wish to meet. We both loved the look of them too - it is such a shame that Britain failed them as I do believe in the right hands they could be a wonderful companion.
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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12-12-2009, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by Crysania
First let me state my position. I know and have spent time with many pit bulls. The neighbors across the road have two, the folks next to them have two more. There are people we play with down in the park who have two pit bulls. Our dog has a blast with them. Do I think they're more dangerous than other dog breeds? No. Not at all. They are no more dangerous than any other larger and more powerful dog (and they're not even really large dogs -- they're supposed to be a good medium sized dog, though many people have bred them with larger dogs, like mastiffs, to make a bigger more powerful dog).
What IS more dangerous than other dogs are dogs that are left chained outside, ignored, abused, starved, or mistreated in some way. And the sad reality to many dog bite cases is that these dogs are NOT "family pets." Statistics have proven time and time again that chaining a dog is likely to create a dangerous one. Many of the dogs who have attacked have been found to be mistreated in one way or another.
To answer Dawn's question -- this is all a matter of news reports. You hear about the bad cases only. No one reports that a pit bull got loose and was picked up by some good Samaritan and returned to its home. No one reports that a pit bull got loose, was picked up by animal control, and returned to its owners, adopted out, or euthanized due to lack of space. No one reports the everyday occurrences that don't result in something newsworthy.
If I were to go by car accident reports I wouldn't ever get into a car again. I would simply say "why would anyone drive when it's a sure death sentence to get into a car?" No one reports the millions of people who drive to work and home again with no problems. No one reports the fender benders. They report the bad accidents with serious injuries and death.
But anyone with common sense realizes that those things are few and far between.
And the same thing goes for bites by pit bulls (and, in fact, bites by any dog). Since moving into this neighborhood I have found two loose pit bulls and one pit mix. One was returned to its owners, the other I called animal control to come get him, the third was adopted by someone after being unsuccessful in finding his owners (likely he was dumped by college students). All three dogs were friendly (in fact, the second one came up and started play bowing in front of my dog). None of those stories were newsworthy.
My dog has been attacked at varying times by loose dogs. Not one of those were pit bulls.
As you are in the States where I think pits are legal in some of your states.... can you answer thins please, I would guess when looking to buy a pit, you will have the benifit of looking to go to a breeder one who goes to the trouble of breedign fro temperament as well as type.
This is a privilege we do not have in this Country, the pits/types that you see here will have been 1) smuggled in from Ireland or further afield ( from dubious lines) 2) been bred here from dubious lines, pet temperaments will be the last thing on the breders mind.
So you can understand why we see them here in a different light, as they are an ilegal breed.
I guess in your Country , you will also be able to legally rescue these dogs, again with a far higher percentage of them being bred with reasonably temperaments
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Location: uk
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12-12-2009, 11:29 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
So you can understand why we see them here in a different light, as they are an ilegal breed.
The 'type' dogs that I have encountered have been of unfailing good temperament.
Here's Bishop (again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egTNyP_Cfbk
The majority of 'type' dogs - the vast, overwhelming majority - are bred from pet stock. They are not game bred.
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
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12-12-2009, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
As you are in the States where I think pits are legal in some of your states.... can you answer thins please, I would guess when looking to buy a pit, you will have the benifit of looking to go to a breeder one who goes to the trouble of breedign fro temperament as well as type.
This is a privilege we do not have in this Country, the pits/types that you see here will have been 1) smuggled in from Ireland or further afield ( from dubious lines) 2) been bred here from dubious lines, pet temperaments will be the last thing on the breders mind.
So you can understand why we see them here in a different light, as they are an ilegal breed.
I guess in your Country , you will also be able to legally rescue these dogs, again with a far higher percentage of them being bred with reasonably temperaments
I think the last is the important point. Some of these dogs WERE bred to fight. But yet they're now living in homes with people. Some of the dogs recently rescued from the Michael Vick ring (I'm sure you've heard about that over there?) are therapy dogs, going into nursing homes, hospices, children's hospitals and the like to cheer up ill patients. The reality in dog fighting rings is that MANY of those dogs are killed because they don't have the will to fight. Only a small handful do and so the rest are used as bait or outright killed.
As far as rescue, yes there are many in rescue here. A disgusting amount really. Most of their origins are unknown. And most of the people I know who have pit bulls didn't get them from a reputable breeder. Most came from shelters. So it's not a matter of "dubious" lines. It's a matter of training and caring for a dog properly.
It IS legal to own them in most parts of the States, but certain cities have banned them (and in fact all dogs that look like a pit, including AmStaffs, Staffies, and crosses; and sometimes even Rottweilers and Dobermans as well).
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Location: Wallasey Wirral.
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12-12-2009, 01:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a4CDvK868w
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Location: Motherwell, UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,088
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12-12-2009, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania
First let me state my position. I know and have spent time with many pit bulls. The neighbors across the road have two, the folks next to them have two more. There are people we play with down in the park who have two pit bulls. Our dog has a blast with them. Do I think they're more dangerous than other dog breeds? No. Not at all. They are no more dangerous than any other larger and more powerful dog (and they're not even really large dogs -- they're supposed to be a good medium sized dog, though many people have bred them with larger dogs, like mastiffs, to make a bigger more powerful dog).
What IS more dangerous than other dogs are dogs that are left chained outside, ignored, abused, starved, or mistreated in some way. And the sad reality to many dog bite cases is that these dogs are NOT "family pets." Statistics have proven time and time again that chaining a dog is likely to create a dangerous one. Many of the dogs who have attacked have been found to be mistreated in one way or another.
To answer Dawn's question -- this is all a matter of news reports. You hear about the bad cases only. No one reports that a pit bull got loose and was picked up by some good Samaritan and returned to its home. No one reports that a pit bull got loose, was picked up by animal control, and returned to its owners, adopted out, or euthanized due to lack of space. No one reports the everyday occurrences that don't result in something newsworthy.
If I were to go by car accident reports I wouldn't ever get into a car again. I would simply say "why would anyone drive when it's a sure death sentence to get into a car?" No one reports the millions of people who drive to work and home again with no problems. No one reports the fender benders. They report the bad accidents with serious injuries and death.
But anyone with common sense realizes that those things are few and far between.
And the same thing goes for bites by pit bulls (and, in fact, bites by any dog). Since moving into this neighborhood I have found two loose pit bulls and one pit mix. One was returned to its owners, the other I called animal control to come get him, the third was adopted by someone after being unsuccessful in finding his owners (likely he was dumped by college students). All three dogs were friendly (in fact, the second one came up and started play bowing in front of my dog). None of those stories were newsworthy.
My dog has been attacked at varying times by loose dogs. Not one of those were pit bulls.
Originally Posted by Jackbox
As you are in the States where I think pits are legal in some of your states.... can you answer thins please, I would guess when looking to buy a pit, you will have the benifit of looking to go to a breeder one who goes to the trouble of breedign fro temperament as well as type.
This is a privilege we do not have in this Country, the pits/types that you see here will have been 1) smuggled in from Ireland or further afield ( from dubious lines) 2) been bred here from dubious lines, pet temperaments will be the last thing on the breders mind.
So you can understand why we see them here in a different light, as they are an ilegal breed.
I guess in your Country , you will also be able to legally rescue these dogs, again with a far higher percentage of them being bred with reasonably temperaments
you get that with many breeds, SBTs, rotties even Boxers... so are those breeds dangerous just coz of some idiots who breed them?? i dont think so.
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