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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,080
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29-11-2010, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
Yep it all creates some stress, you can't deliever a constant stream of treats and if you could you would have rewarded all behaviours! The delays and absence will create stress. Deprivation increases motivation. Waiting until a dog is hungry to do some training (not desperatly though) will ensure a higher level of try in the dog. Same as only using a special toy.
I'm not saying anythings wrong with that! Just that it happens.
Adam
. Adam, may I suggest you ask to go and sit in on a training class run by a good trainer who predominantly uses rewards. I think you will very likely have a change of view if you ever get to see this type of training carried out properly. In fact, if you can convince the trainer to let you shadow them during an aggression one to one session, I think you will learn vast amounts. If it ever comes off, take your video camera and compare your own footage with that taken at such a session. You may then begin to understand a little bit about training predominantly with reward
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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29-11-2010, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Yep it all creates some stress, you can't deliever a constant stream of treats and if you could you would have rewarded all behaviours! The delays and absence will create stress. Deprivation increases motivation. Waiting until a dog is hungry to do some training (not desperatly though) will ensure a higher level of try in the dog. Same as only using a special toy.
I'm not saying anythings wrong with that! Just that it happens.
Adam
no wonder you HAVE to use a Ecollar, youd be unable to train in a normal way , due to lack of empathy , understanding & talent
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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29-11-2010, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley
Oh dear
. Adam, may I suggest you ask to go and sit in on a training class run by a good trainer who predominantly uses rewards. I think you will very likely have a change of view if you ever get to see this type of training carried out properly. In fact, if you can convince the trainer to let you shadow them during an aggression one to one session, I think you will learn vast amounts. If it ever comes off, take your video camera and compare your own footage with that taken at such a session. You may then begin to understand a little bit about training predominantly with reward
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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29-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Stress in Dogs: Learn How Dogs Show Stress and What You Can Do to Help [Perfect Paperback]
Martina Scholz
come on, guys, let`s have an Educating Adam Project. Go team!
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Location: Nottingham, UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,540
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29-11-2010, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
Here, Adam & friend - a nice book for you about how to recognise and deal with canine stress. You can get it from Amazon.
Stress in Dogs: Learn How Dogs Show Stress and What You Can Do to Help [Perfect Paperback]
Martina Scholz
come on, guys, let`s have an Educating Adam Project. Go team!
- Dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) derived from wolves.
- Most aim to please a human who they trust and stay loyal to for most of their lives.
- Rescue dogs are often found to be hardest to rehabilitate as many have issues - these can be resolved with TLC
- Dogs feel pain but will not show it unless near enough death or in immense pain.
Thats about it from me
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Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
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29-11-2010, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Thats right kruse.
If I'd brought a ball out he would have lightened up and those signals disappeared, as it was I wanted to show the reality of dealing with a dog with a history of aggression.
Btw did you watch the follow up vids?
Adam
or you've missed the irony of your post above.
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Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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30-11-2010, 06:42 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Whats your point, if I brought the ball out it would have looked ok becuase he would have gone into drive and masked stress signals REGARDLESS of the use of aversives.
Adam
bring the bloody ball out ALL the time , Train with that if he loves it & throw away the e colar
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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30-11-2010, 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
Here, Adam & friend - a nice book for you about how to recognise and deal with canine stress. You can get it from Amazon.
Stress in Dogs: Learn How Dogs Show Stress and What You Can Do to Help [Perfect Paperback]
Martina Scholz
come on, guys, let`s have an Educating Adam Project. Go team!
BTW I've mentioned Coercion & its Fallout by Murray Sidman a few times on Dogsey & I can highly recommend it. It's not sentimental twaddle & it's not a dog training/behaviour book but it graphically illustrates the things that can go wrong & the emotional fallout from using coercion for teaching & in just in general, both on an individual level & international level. Quite thought provoking, if sometimes idealistic, but well worth a read.