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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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Originally Posted by
lilypup
i watched an episode last night with my 16 year old daughter. i turned the volume down and asked her to describe what she saw. she said she saw a frightened bulldog being kicked by cesar while skateboarders surrounded her.
she said that it was no wonder the dog wasn't focusing on the skaters as it was more concerned with where the next kick was coming from.
she also said if she saw someone doing that to their dog she'd call the police!
out of the mouths of babes...
Well done your daughter - seems she understands dogs and is not lead by slick productions. Is she looking to work with dogs because it sounds like she has a natural understanding that most dog owners sadly seem to not have
Originally Posted by
ClaireandDaisy
A `trainer` alpha rolled my Daisy - an agressive rescue I was working with to rehabilitate her. She did it so fast I didn`t have time to stop her. She had asked me to go to the other end of a tunnel and call her through. Fair enough. Daisy was muzzled. As I turned, Daisy jumped and barked, suddenly anxious that her person was walking away. The stupid woman threw herself on top and pinned her down and fought her. She was not a small woman and Daisy is not a particularly big German Shepherd.
Since then, I have to muzzle Daisy around trainers as she watches them suspiciously. In that instant she learned that people in that position hurt and frighten you. I have managed to get her to accept policemen, ticket inspectors, screeching children and skateboarders. But they didn`t attack her, did they?
Why would any normal person feel the need to physically subdue a small mammal who is totally dependent on them? I can only assume they enjoy the feeling of power. What does it prove - except that you are bigger and heavier than a dog. Wow. Big deal.
That is so sad that a trainer was so stupid - and all because she was stressed because you were walking away - totaly totaly stupid!
Originally Posted by
Gnasher
CM's methods are so cruel that I managed with little effort to stop Tai mating a friend's Alaskan Malamute bitch who is nearing the end of her season (unbeknown to us, before I am slated
).
Every time he attempted to climb on board, a swift "Oi" caused him to pause and look at me; a further snap of the fingers and a "down" resulted in a rapid dismount.
Even I was impressed ... I fully expected to have to at the very least grab his collar and pull him off her, or put him on the lead. But not, she and Tai had a lovely romp, mock fight and Catch-Me-If-You-Can race around our friends' garden.
Gosh I am so cruel
I havent in any of CM's episodes heard him teaching a single command - 'down' 'sit' whatever I would never have my dog in such a situation, if I turned up somewhere where there was a bitch in season and my dog was any way interested I would clip him on the lead straight away
Sure I have pretty good voice control over Ben but whats the point of stressing him - its like he can walk nicely offlead but I clip him on the lead beside roads - I prefer to have him 100% safe rather than people marvel at how I can call him away from chasing a rabbit or something
Originally Posted by
tinkladyv
I will try take this oppotunity to answer all the questions put to me as best i can.
I have used the Alpha roll and pinning with my sisters German Sheperd, she has tried trainer after trainer, all with different ideas, but no success. the GS jumps up with so much force he has knocked her and others over consistent with the ideas of the trainers etc but this was escalating out of control. We took advise from a trainer we new after discussion about motivation, circumstances etc and used the Alpha Roll. .
Thankyou for replying. I am assuming you are talking about excited jumping up when greeting then??
Why not just teach the dog an alternative behaviour?? Like sitting when greeting - its fairly easy to teach
Originally Posted by
ClaireandDaisy
I found one reason why NGC are sensitive about the clip - the American Humane Assoc. (US version of the RSPCA) protested about his methods, and demanded they not show this episode -
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-...whisperer.html
Of course this body can see it looks cruel but his followers just cannot see anything wrong with his methods
Originally Posted by
Tassle
I have also been on the recieving end of people who have tried and failed with the Alpha rolling. One GSD who was exhibiting classic teenage behaviour - was being rolled by its owners of 4 weeks...it then bit one of the owners so badly she was unwilling to work with the dog and refused to rehome it as it was a dangerous dog. (It had jumped up and bitten her arm after being rolled on a pavement).
That is so sad - an example of a dog being totaly normal but subjected to his methods made him rehomable - and I guess PTS - so a dog killed because of CM's methods
Originally Posted by
Gnasher
We have darling, many times! As I have said before, I do not like the Illusion collar, I dislike any gadget, preferring to use Cesar's calm assertive methods, rather than his collar. As I have also said many times before, when we first took Tai on, he had good, basic training, but his manners were appalling. 24 hours of Cesar's techniques, and he was a different dog. With simple calm assertiveness, positive confident body language, consistency and firmness we turned a rather rude dog with no manners, into one who would sit and wait for his food until told he could eat, would not barge through doorways and down the stairs, and would not pull like an express train on the lead. That is why I cannot understand Cesar using choke chains - those of his client's who have chokes - or indeed, the Illusion collar. He can achieve the same thing without, because I have with Tai.
And yes, your interpretation of my belief towards the "stringing up" is as you say ... that Cesar is not stringing up the dog, the dog is fighting back and resisting the discipline of the lead. For the first time in their lives, the various dogs that we have seen being so-called strung up (your words, not mine) are having to learn some basic manners, control and discipline that they should have learned a very long time ago from their owners.
Its great that you got a nice happy relationship by teaching your dog some tricks - our dogs do love to work with us. Do you really think those of us who disagree with CM have dogs with no manners??
I totaly agree that in most of the situations the dogs are suffering because of the lack of training from the owners.
and of course the dog will be v confused if things that have worked in the past no longer work for it
Mia was totaly used to pulling on the lead, she had learnt that pulling ment she got somewhere faster. When it stoped working (when I got her) like any dog she tried harder to get it to work to start with - this is not bad bahviour it is just her using her brains - then when she realised that was not going to work she tried lots of other things until she did something I liked (sitting down) so she figured out that now if she wanted to manipulate me into walking she had to sit nicely
As for 'calmly stringing up' and all the rest
makes me think of the bit in 'Silence of the lambs' where Lector has the music playing and is calmly cutting up the guy
You could calmly shoot someone in the face, calmly hit them with a baseball bat, you might be feeling calm but the other person is feeling violence