So we aren't all positive trainers, so what? Just because a person uses methods that differ from most on this foum doesn't make them wrong. I'm just Joe Blow, I'm not a professional, I don't take clients & train other people's dogs, would I just run up to someones dog, take them & do what I do with mine? No! My dogs are happy & healthy fulfilled they get to do (in Izze's case) what they were bred to do which is herd cattle & serve & aid their master around the ranch, which is what most herding/working breeds were bred for & hunger for.

Do I automatically assume that everything they do is because they are 'trying to be dominant', no! Do I use adversives for behaviors that I deem innapropriate, yes & the 'hardness' of the adversive depends on what they are doing.

Example: for crossing a fenceline they are not supposed to I will usually do a simple 'ah aht!' & then praise when they back up, if they don't I will move toward them until they back up.

no its not, you are so far off the mark, unbelievable. no wonder you have to train like you do, you really havent got a clue.

Mishflynn- do you say that to Adam because he truely does not know what he is doing, or perhaps he does, he just does it in a different way that you do & there for THAT is what makes him ultimately wrong?

I don't think that any method is wrong, I never say that positive methods are BS, if they work for you & your dogs that's great, but its not for me, does that make pure positive bad or wrong, no! Its just not on my boots.

Because its common sense. Surely. & if that is part of his "training" then that worries me more than al the aversions in theworld. NIL understanding.

Its not a method, its pure common "dog sense" that any trainer should know by "instinct"

Everyone has their own opinion, neither Adam or myself have been overtly rude (intentionally) to anyone here regarding their training style but everyone has ganged up on us.

I'm in nobodies 'camp' I take from every method a little, a little positive here, a dash of adversives there & such.

There are no enemies here, I haven't attacked or belittled anyone here, I just have different views.

Its not ganging up on you. Its a thread about prong collars. Therefore it is prong collars in question

It is wrong because it inflicts discomfort/pain on another which no-one has the right to do. Especially when their are kinder ways which can be made enjoyable.

i use aversions sometimes, im just against prong collars as a training aid.

You are only feeling ganged up on bwecause you are in the minority.

Why not get involved on some other threads & get involved in the board. i love ACDs!
Dont worry about Adam , hes only on here for free advertising!

In short would a recomend a prong for the average pet owner? No. Do I wish they were more regulated? Yeah I do. Will I change my methods? No they work for me, dog & I are happy & everything is fine.

Thats fine then, whats the problem?

We have seen the videos of Adams own dogs---he has no idea about canine body language.

His first port of call is always the nasty one and he has said he would use two nasty collars.


Since many people on here train their own dogs and work with other people to achieve a high standard of basic obedience not to mention high standards in many dog sports he comes over as a bit of a macho idiot really.

If you agree with him then ...........

rune