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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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28-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by Hali 
Yes, or at least I think so (trying to work at the same time). But you asked questions in the thread which I thought should be answered on the thread.
If there's something you think I've missed, just let me know.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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28-01-2011, 02:41 PM
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Location: UK
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28-01-2011, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
Am also not surprised at all that anyone who is pro Crufts and thinks I was being out of order has chosen to ignore the research I have done highlighting some fundamental points where Crufts have condoned (or turned a blind eye) to animal cruelty.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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28-01-2011, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Which facts??
Originally Posted by Pidge
Please get your facts straight and learn abit about what you are saying yourself. Eukanuba is Iams. They are one and the same and were involved in some horrific animal testing - force feeding dogs and removing muscle from them. They make me sick and yes I can say I have nothing to do with P&G at all, including Pringles before anyone asks!
Here, have a read - http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iams.htm
Originally Posted by Pidge
This recent article is very interesting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ets-inbreeding
The last two paras in particular have some interesting comments about the vets judging being breeders too, and also that sick dogs can still win rosettes. Hardly impartial.
You all have a go at me for not listening to your pov yet when I express mine no one makes any comment. Does make me wonder why.
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Location: Scottish Borders
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28-01-2011, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
Fact.
Research.
You all have a go at me for not listening to your pov yet when I express mine no one makes any comment. Does make me wonder why.
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Location: UK
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28-01-2011, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Crufts - is anyone else NOT a fan?
Now for me that is a but like saying 'football anyone not a fan'..
I don't know the first thing about football, I don't have any interest in it at all so I leave it alone for those who do understand and appreciate the finer points of the sport. I don't critisise others for appreciating and understand something I don't.
I kinda see what you are saying but I disagree.
If there was a thread for people not being fans of football my standpoint would be that while I have nothing against the individual enjoying a match I disagree with the vast amounts of police needed to control the fans, the horrific intimidation if you time your train wrong and end up on the same train as them, the violence etc....
I have never been to a football match but I dislike it very much
Likewise Crufts or any other dog show. Many people just don't 'get' what it is all about and think it is just a parade of bored dogs .
It sooo much more than that if you are passionate about a breed
. It's meeting up with fellow enthusiasts/learning about a breed/comparing dogs / seeing how dogs with the same breeding and litter mates have turned out/finding out who is breeding what/looking at possible stud dogs (if you are a breeder)/looking around at the stalls for the latests goods,maybe winning something and for many dogs and owners a jolly good day out. Yes again all that sounds great, but I am also passonate about my breed (the border collie) and one of the main reasons I was against showing in the first place is my fear of the long term effect on a breed that is all about inteligence and ability that is being judged on and bred based on conformation and coat patterns (I know there is more to it than that - but I doubt you will see a border colle crufts winner who is smooth coated, pricked eared with long legs and a tri coloured heavily ticked coat - although i have seen plenty working cattle)
as I said I am all for individuals having some fun with their dogs, but I am intitled to have an oppinion about the long term effects of the breed
In the days when I was involved with showing the dogs couldn't wait to get in the car and get to the shows. We never went to the big shows alone always two people and the dogs were never left on the benches unattended except for the briefest of moments when a fellow exhibitor would keep watch. The dogs were frequently walked around and loved sitting on the benches being admired and spoken to by the visiting public.
So to the detractors if you don't like it no one is asking you to ,leave it alone.
That said I have to say Crufts isn't my faviourite show ,to busy and 'hyped' for me mainly because it is the only dog show many of the general public seem to be are aware of. I much prefer the summer outdoor Championship shows.
Originally Posted by rune
One person did it and it certainly looked damaging to me----but I think it tends to look like a mating 'pose' if you aren't careful (G)!
I don't know why Crufts have banned it---the KC rules do not ban any moves as yet. It is left up to the judges.
I have heard that a Crufts rep will watch the semis thios w/e and say if anything they see is unacceptable to them----but don't quote me on that as it is a rumour at the moment and may not be true!
rune
I guess its a difficult thing to know whether to actually ban a move or not - I actually saw a little border terrier yesterday doing a little handstand down the street because she didnt want to get her paws wet in a puddle - but I wouldnt think it would be a good or natural move for a large muscular dog
There as so much conflicting advice about what is or isnt good moves to do
For example weaves are a no no for young dogs in agility - but often in HWtM people teach puppies to leg weave
There seems to be a trend not to teach puppies to walk backwards - but i cant see how that is worse than leg weaving
sorry - will stop not totaly off topic
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Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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28-01-2011, 03:40 PM
Also I betwe all have a P & G product of some sort somewhere in the house. With regards the article by Jemima Puddleduck, if you read it the chairman of the KC Ronnie Irvine is in agreement some things need to change but thats across the board in dog breeding and nothing what soever to do with Crufts as a whole.
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Location: UK
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28-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
Fact.
Research.
You all have a go at me for not listening to your pov yet when I express mine no one makes any comment. Does make me wonder why.
Think your links Pidge are bit of "clutching at straws" I applaud you for taking a stand on not buying from a company, but to condemn Crufts "the whole of it" , because of one small aspect , is a little extreme.
The second link, lets not forget who wrote the article, she has her own agenda to promote.... herself.
So what if some of the vets are judges???
I can think of at least a couple of vets who also show,/judge and beleive me, they do immense work within their breeds to help rid them of any genetic problems.
Do you really think a vet is going to put his career and reputation on the line, simply because he shows/judges as well.
Many genetic diseases are not apparent from birth, whats wrong with showing a dog that may in there future develop one, I know someone who's dog is epileptic, he still shows, he enjoys it so does his owner, he shows no sign of it in the ring, his medications controls his condition, whats wrong with them both having a bit of fun, now and again.
Why is it assumed that because a dog carries a genetic problem is is automatically going to be bred from
Breeding from know "ill dogs" is something we would all agree is not on, but to just have a hobby and show them , why not! if the dog is well enough good luck to them.
Not everyone shows to further the breed, many do it for pleasure and most of the dogs in the ring, will NEVER be bred from.
Posting links from Jemima Puddle duck, does not really give your argument much credibility..she writes only what fits her purpose, getting facts right is not something she worries over
She likes to sensationalise,.... writing things like "getting a bunch of vets" does not give her much credence to her article!
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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28-01-2011, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar
Gillette sponser the Cricket, theres owned by P&G who own Iams/eukanuba does that make cricket cruel to dogs as well.
Also I betwe all have a P & G product of some sort somewhere in the house. With regards the article by Jemima Puddleduck, if you read it the chairman of the KC Ronnie Irvine is in agreement some things need to change but thats across the board in dog breeding and nothing what soever to do with Crufts as a whole.
Still waiting for my apology and at the very least your acceptance that your statement was in fact in correct.
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Location: cornwall uk
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28-01-2011, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Yup I agree most of the time it dosent look pretty and I really fail how you can work it into a routine except as a 'look what I can do' trick
I guess its a difficult thing to know whether to actually ban a move or not - I actually saw a little border terrier yesterday doing a little handstand down the street because she didnt want to get her paws wet in a puddle - but I wouldnt think it would be a good or natural move for a large muscular dog
There as so much conflicting advice about what is or isnt good moves to do
For example weaves are a no no for young dogs in agility - but often in HWtM people teach puppies to leg weave
There seems to be a trend not to teach puppies to walk backwards - but i cant see how that is worse than leg weaving
sorry - will stop not totaly off topic
HTM freestyle is now 18mths but heelwork remains 12mths, Since any moves can be put into the HW routines it seems a bit silly really!
Pups walking backwards I can't see a problem with, it teaches them where their legs are. It's hard to teach to an unco ordinated dog anyway so I wouldn't think it would cause damage.
Weaving through legs isn't the same as agility weaves at all, much wider gap and different action. I'd be more worried about spins.
rune
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