this has been a good one hasn't it? Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks all!!!!!

I concur
Cracking thread Carole, thank you for coming up with it and well done everyone for such thoughtful input and great behaviour, this one has been a real pleasure to participate in

here here

Hi Carole,
I've done a lot of beating over the years and seen a lot of dogs that have fantastic linage, cost a lot of money, trained by the top people and then ruined by bad handling by there owners. If i owned a dog that behaved that bad i would have left it at home

Will we see the day when a pointer will 'point' at the judge in the show ring because they are so far removed from pointing at there natural quarry. Just a thought.

My pointer "points" every day. If she hasn't got any birds to stalk she resorts to scaring my youngest setter Bradley, she stares at him and stands rigid pointing at him , he pretends he hates it but he plays her up by stalking her back (But she isn't allowed to do it in the show ring )

Will we see the day a Mal or a Sibe will haul a sledge through the ring....NO..............will we see the day when a Aussie herds sheep through the ring......NO......will we see the day when Boxers fight in the show ring......NO. This can be said for most breeds, especially the working group and the gundog group. Does it mean they shouldn't be judged for their standard in deciding whether or not they can actually DO the job they were bred for ???? NO

I agree with everything you said, apart from the Boxer fighting. they where not bred to fight, they where bred to Bait..... a huge difference..

but you are right, dont think we will see may bulls in the ring for the Baiting breeds to work!!!!!!!!

With regard to some of the working, gundog and pastoral breeds - I think it would be great if they could only gain a show qualification if they proved themselves in the work field first.

I doubt whether it can be decided whether they can actually DO the job they were bred for unless it is witnessed in the field so to speak.

There are a few people who do work and show their pointers. I seem to remember that there could also be a full champion?

I was sat in the vets the other evening and saw a show pointer on a lead, on some grass. It was a flexi lead and the blooke was sat on the bench and the pointer was just sniffing around. The pointer saw a rook on the ground and did point. I have to say that I wouldn't go to a show kennel to find a working pointer, but there are dual purpose ones out there.

Helen