No dog should go offlead until trustworthy anyway, and that often means using a long line to assess the dogs responsiveness to recall in the face of prey or other triggers.

To let a dog off lead knowing that dog has an issue which will be problematic is just idiocy.
To let a dog off lead knowing that dog has an issue which will be problematic in order to set that dog up to be punished is idiocy and cruelty.

If the handler has not yet achieved a bond with their dog to the point that the handler is more interesting than the distraction, thats what the handler needs to work on, not zap the dog because the handler has not made themselves interesting enough.

Or keep the dog on a lead or longline until the handler has learned to be a better handler which includes understanding the situations their dog has difficulty with.


No, they can just be a useful way to inflict pain on a dog rather than work on better motivation for the dog, they are the lazy persons tool, nothing more. If a dog can`t be trusted at a distance then that dog should not be allowed off a long line until the handler has improved their own skills.

Not so great if the battery fails or the collar itself fails. I don`t use vibrating collars on my deaf dogs for that reason. Must be just luck that my deaf dogs have managed to learn things with reward only

That deliberately sets the dog up to fail in order to punish the dog. That is the premise of shock collar zappers.

Better solution : Slippers have been left laying around, [ that comes under handler error ], dog is interested in the slippers, handler distracts the dog with a happy tone and with something the dog is allowed and encouraged to chew / play with.
Dog is praised for doing so.
The slippers therefore bring no reward, [ and no punishment either ], and the dog learns what its ok to play with instead, therefore the slippers are a non-issue.
End of subliminal training.

And that is why shock collars are used - to punish, and with the dog not being guided toward a preferred behaviour. Hardly fair !

Might seem to be the end of the punishment but not to the dog - in that moment the trust is chipped away and that does stay with the dog.


It does`nt really matter how you try to justify it - zapping a dog with a shock simply means the handler has neither the knowledge nor the will to be more creative and more understanding. Using a shock collar is the mark of a very poor handler because they can`t or won`t put in actual training.

Yes. Hate them. Many dogs have died because of them by running though then not being able to return so ended up killed on the road. Also know of one which was a happy friendly dog, but proper fences where the dog lived were not allowed, [ in the US ], only the garden was in line with a school. The dog was great with children - until the shock fence was installed. The dog would wander forward to say hello to the kids as they came out of school, kept getting zapped, and as a direct result the dog became child aggressive.
Shock collars do the same thing, by creating a visual target as the cause of the pain from the zap.

On a properly handled long line the dog does not feel restricted at all, they get to run around and sniff etc same as off lead dog. If a dog on a long line reaches the full length of that line before responding to recall or has to be reeled in because of not responding then that dog is not ready to go off the line yet, end of.

Surely you can put up a notice on the gate ? Just leaving a dog where people can let them out is a lack of basic care is`nt it ?

Punishing, [ prettying it up with a more `pc` word does`nt cut it I`m afraid ], a dog for not staying close is a great way to make sure a dog does`nt want to be close, its as bad as punishing a slow recall

In other words your dog was taught that being a certain distance from you means pain - personally I don`t want my dogs to stay close to me because they are too afraid of a punishment because of not being plastered to my side, I want them to be close because they want to be close to me.

Surely what was needed was you to improve the delivery of the cue either improving on voice or use of an interesting,[ not punitive ], sound or use of a favourite toy ?

I`ve lost count of how many people I`ve had to explain what they are doing wrong with that one
So many of their dogs thought the cue for Sit was actually the touch or the handler movement leading up to the touch, instead of the vocal cue - and most people who use this slower clumsy method without even realising they usually do part of the initial physical movement when saying sit and that`s what the dogs are actually responding to, not the verbal cue

Tell me - how would you teach Sit to a deaf dog ?
Serious question - bearing in mind everything is visual and you can`t give the dog a good visual if you are are using a physical touch to get the desired position, [ because they, like the dogs having their bums pushed down as you have outlined ], learn then from the touch instead of the visual cue they need to learn for the required action...