If you say so

like I said you have a lot of enhusiasm and very little knowledge. I didn't suggest you were unsuitable just that you should learn a bit more about them

Totally agree! I use harnesses on all of mine and they are much happier

I have watched the show and like a parson's egg - it is good in parts.
I agree with the emphasis on exercise.
Unfortunately many Americans ( so my American friends tell me) never walk their dogs. They have large gardens in many cases and think letting the dog run there is enough.
So the simple act of walking the dog would help many of them.

I strongly disagree with the dogs only live in the moment quote.
My first dog was badly abused. For all of her 18 years any time she met a man wearing the same aftershave of her abuser, she would wet herself.
She wasn't living in the moment. She was expecting a beating every time she smelled that aftershave.

Please remember, this is an entertainment programme.It can't possibly go into all aspects of dogs and training. By its very nature, it will show successes - people would stop watching otherwise. Not good for ratings.
Also remember, when it comes to dog training - one size does not fit all.

Brill post, excellent prespective!

So how do you use a slip lead then?:smt100
Have I been doing it wrong all these years?
I`ve seen it used to hoist dogs heads up in show rings - is that it? And there`s me thinking they were invented for gundogs....oh silly me.

There are different methods of using slip leads/chokers. The type that the Gundog people use in the showring is just a long, continuous slip lead that is usually positioned low on the dog's neck in movement, not strung up under the chin. When the dog is stood, it's loosened further back to display the shoulder placement without interuption.

Some gundog breeds though do use chokers and the stringing up method, at least for movement.... American Cockers, I believe is one.

Other breeds such as Akitas and most of the Terriers use chokers or slip leads and keep them constantly positioned high under the chin, in stance and movement.

Personally, I hate to see dogs handled in this way. It forces the dog to hold his head in an unaturally elevated position and must cause at least some discomfort. It does give the handler more control, and can be used to disguise movement faults to some extent by a skilled handler, but the dog has no escape. If it struggles, it just causes more discomfort.

I haven't seen much of CM but I believe he used a slip lead as a means to gain control. I'm sure it must cause some discomfort to the dog, but, from what I can gather, the dogs usually learn quickly that if they stop fighting the lead, the pressure is released. I think a quick lesson learned to save much hassle, unlike the show dogs that endure this every time they are shown or trained.

Using a slip lead in the manner Mr Milan does on a collie with a history like the one mentioned is not acceptable.
That dog must have sustained some very horrific injuries with an embedded collar, and probably permanent nerve damage
I personally would of used a harness, it would of been a brilliant tool to use on a dog like that. In time and with lots of encouragement I would of got the dog used to wearing a very loose , light collar for it's tags. But I would always walk the dog in a harness, never putting any pressure on the neck area.

Cesar does bully dogs into complying with him, he does perform miracles on the TV, but in the longterm , who benefits, his tv ratings or the abused dog??? It would be very boring to watch someone gently retraining the dog to accept humans as non threatening and building trust slowly

There are better, less dramatic ways to work with a dog, his techniques are always based on confrontation, and if someone copies his techniques who isn't so confident, they are going to get in to bother with a dog sooner or later.

Hi mse2: because with a harness he would have had less control initially, when Howie was completely traumatised by something, however gentle, around his neck.

The problem was that this dog had been kept inside the animal shelter for 2 years. How obscene is that? How horrible that the dog was so traumatised by the thought of anything around his neck that those well meaning ladies had not been able to get him outside?

To me, in this situation, there was no time for mess about, that dog had to discover the joys of going for a walk, and discover IMMEDIATELY ... not in a few weeks or months time.

Thus, the use of a GENTLE slip collar, or leash, or whatever you want to call it, rather than a harness.

If you knew me, you would say that I am completely besotted with dogs. I love them and respect them far more than I do my own species. With me its dogs first, horses a very close second and homo sapiens third ! I promise you I am absolutely the last person to do anything cruel to any living creature, let alone a dog. I am just light years away still from being convinced that Cesar's Way is Cruel. I can't see it. I won't say that everything he does I agree with, by any manner or means. Thanks to people on this site mainly like mishflynn, Patch, yourself and others, :smt038 :smt038 I have stepped back and really taken a long hard look at Cesar and his methods and his interaction with dogs. And with one or two negatives I have, he scores 95% with me as a dog rehabilitator and a human trainer!

Patch: hi there, sorry if I was a bit over the top ... again ! I hope I haven't offended you, I don't mean to be blunt, but I can see that I am sometimes. I often forget the smiley thingeys, but if I do, please pretend that they are there !!

Moonstone: hi there, that is a very interesting point you make about less confident people getting into a muddle with his calm assertive techniques. Which is precisely why constantly throughout the programme, we have those warnings stating that we mustn't try these methods at home, but consult a professional, etc. etc.