I think you'll find Blue and Fawn Dobes have been around an awful long time and were not just "added" in fact they continue to be a minority because of associated problems.

Thats exactly what I am saying because if I were breeding them i would adhere to the rules laid down here not elsewhere in the world. I know you have a thing about dogs of non standard colours, i remember you having a phase with blue Schipperkes, but as I said I cannot for the life of me see why if something isnt broke, you are trying tio fix it! All asthetics nothing more. Do you see solid coloured Poodles in a different light to mismarked ones?
Dawn.

It's the pedigree breeders responsibility to comform to the breed standard.

A breed standard is a bit of paper. People know dogs. It's the 'writers' of the breed standard's responsibility to be in touch with those evolving developments.

I agree with Phil, Mahooli and Hayley on this one. Who decided what a breed standard for any given breed would be? What makes it ok for 1 group of people to decide to change a part of the standard and not ok for 1 person to decide they want to change a part of the standard? I'm talking purely about aesthetics here because I'll always agree that only healthy dogs should be bred. There is no difference.

I think it's mostly people that want show dogs that are bothered about type. If I'm going for a pedigree dog then yes I want it to look like the breed it is meant to be but on the whole, most people want pets, be it pedigree or otherwise. I'm more concerned with temperament and health. I don't care if the dam and the sire of my puppy are the 'best examples of the breed' according to the breed standard. I know what an Akita looks like and that's good enough for me. I don't think most people even know what the word 'type' means!

One example (and the only 1 i can think of!) is the breed split with Akitas. There is now the Akita and the Japanese Akita Inu. As of last year, both now have their own breed standard but in places there are still people that classify the 2 breeds as one. Who has the authority or right to tell these people that they are wrong?

Not everyone cares about CC's, BIS's and the rest of that so why should everyone be forced to follow one strict rule, if it isn't detrimental to the dog? Healthy dogs should be the only ones bred from for obvious reasons but when it comes to things like markings and colour, it's minor to me.

Tee the best post on this thread, thank you x

I will not deny I am fixated on the perfect dog,
I will only buy a pup that is a good standard for showing even if I never have any intention to show

The Japanese Akita is a perfect example of how a breed can be destroyed by people liking flashy colours and breeding ones that are exagerated and unaccepted by the native Country it was bred in. I for one am delighted that the Japanese Akita is once again the Japanese Akita!!!

Neither do puppy farmers, its how they make their money.

So what is the perfect dog? Is Seren, and her Sire and Dam, as no dog is perfect, just like a human beings. Im sure in your eyes she is, but maybe not to a judge? Just like Bessie is perfect to me, but I doubt she is in the judges eyes. No slight on your dogs as I think your DDB is lovely and your pup looks nice too, just your be forever search for that perfect dog.

And they perfect dog really is not that much to do with physicality's, but to do with fitness, temperament and health.

Thats unfair, people just want dogs Dawn, not a hobby. I hate puppy farmers but because you do not breed to the strict standards does not make you a puppy farmer

To get back to basics, there is no such thing as a "perfect" dog, they all deviate from the standard in one way or another, what is important is what the deviation is and how great it is. All we can hope to do is to produce the best puppies that we can. BUT your interpretation off the Standard and my interpretation will probably be slightly different. If this was not the case then there would be no point in having any Shows or any Judges.

You have to accept the fact that every dog has a fault, ear set too high, eye too light, not enough turn of stifle etc, Then if you want to breed you look for the dog that will, hopefully, correct the fault, but at the same time accepting that that dog also has a fault which may turn up in the pups., and what is accepted in GB/Europe/USA can all be slightly different - the one thing that must be sound is temperament
On the issue of colour - how many white boxers have been destroyed at birth because they "might" be deaf, I was told of one dobe breeder who always put down the brown pups because he didn't like the colour. For many years it was nearly all black/tan dobes in the ring, gradually more browns appeared and then we had "rainbow" litters of all four colours which are now accepted. The main problem with the Isabella and the Blue is skin problems, not their colour. Although here I have to admit that I find the American production of so called "White" dobermanns
not to my taste at all, but "fashions" change and who can say that in another 20 years or so there will be or not be white dobes in the showring. Breeds constantly evolve. My first cocker spaniel was not like today's cocker spaniels,and we have so called "Working" types and "Show" types of the same breed.

Most of our breeds today have been "manufactured" in the last 200 years or so, just look around you. dobes - boxers etc. etc. and if you look at old paintings, or old photos just look how the dogs have changed. It is an inev itable part of breeding. All you can do is breed for type and breed to keep away from any MAJOR faults.A light eye may not go down well with the Judge, but the dog can see just as well , maybe even better than one with a dark eye - Most of the really old hunting breeds have lighter eyes. Just love your breed and your dogs and take care with breeding sound healthy dogs with good temperaments.Kath

It's not unfair Hayley - It's a matter of opinion - and my opinion (for the record) is the same as yours.

I think its a tough topic and a novice dog 'buyer' can't be held accountable for puppy farming or buying from crappy breeding no more than you can be held responsible for buying a **** car.