I took my dog to the Lake District and kept her on a long lead for any part where we might come across sheep, it wasn't hard We had great runs in Rothay Park.

As you've asked for opinions I'd say it was wrong to use a collar, really because no dog should be off lead near sheep as it can be shot. Secondly, dogs will be dogs - they ain't Lassie - and if they have a strong drive to kill then they will, it's up to us to keep other animals safe from them, but to also satisfy their instincts if possible (eg terriers love squeaky toys which to an extent can guide their drive).

As for the pain, shock collars vary. Some go from very low to 100 - and you would not want to try that on yourself believe me!

In the article you read, I believe I know the make of collar and if as they said they put it on the levels they did, it would have hurt a lot.

I know of a dog who was in a van with another dog, and the organisatoin concerned with training them were using a shock collar to stop the one dog from barking. They shocked the dog (on a fairly high level) and it turned and ferociously attacked the other dog, who it thought was attacking it.

The second dog was so badly injured he was put to sleep. Dogs may associate the discomfort or pain with others around it - not always but it does happen. I'd not use them ever.

these things sound awful and so unnecessary, when all that is needed is a lead, i am sorry if you think that this thread is attacking your motives but just think about it would you try one of these collars just to see how it feels i know i wouldnt and i certainly wouldnt want my dogs to wear one just so they can be off their leads, why dont you invest in a nice long lead so you and your dog can enjoy your hill climbing walks together without having to cause your dog pain so he behaves the way you want him to

About 4 years ago I took on a tri-colour BC called Ben. I didn't want him, I just couldn't bear to leave him where he was. He was 4 years old and had been neglected and abused his entire life and he was in a pitiful state. His behaviour towards people was understandable, he didn't trust them that was that and he din't have a clue how to interact with other dogs but he adored children and would have died for me right from day one. I had lots of "helpfull"suggestions on how to deal with him and his behaviour and several people suggested training collars, both the spray type and the electric ones. |

I chose to use neither and after 18 months of hard work and patience he was a different dog. This was a dog that would spot a person coming and run up to them and try to pull them over, he would see another dog and immediately go for the scruff and try to drag them because he didn't know how to interact. Nobody could come and speak to me with Ben around because he was so overprotective of me, I was the only one he trusted and gradually he improved and he became a happy relaxed dog, a long way from the pitiful creature he was when he arrived. I dread to think of the damage I would have done if I had chosen to use one of these. I have heard lots of people say that they have tried them and they didn't hurt but I wonder how many have tried them around their necks?

I agree, I cannot see any reason why I would need to use one of these collars. I have owned terriers with a very high prey drive and I have never had this problem. I have never forced any of my dogs to do anything they didn't want to, I simply make it a better option for them and they do it because I ask them to. I fostered a saluki x whippet lurcher here and he would chase rabbits and if I called he would stop and come immediately, it meant more to him to please me than to chase rabbits. I think these things should be banned because their use is open to abuse far more than not, there are too many people out there looking for a quick fix, nobody wants to work with their dogs anymore

i would never use one and i have seen one used and i didn't like what i saw.if your dog has a problem with livestock etc and you can't keep it on the lead then what is wrong with a muzzle??i would rather see a dog wearing a muzzle than being shocked but each to their own

hello again.
So many posts!
Firstly, no I am not going to the radio one road show, although the park where it is held is about 3 mins walk from my house! No one in Dundee seems to have got tickets, I think it's a conspiracy... I am not into loud music anyway, so will be migrating to my parents house for the weekend.

Thanks for all your posts, and esp. thanks to whoever suggested a lung line... super super idea. I have one, and never thought about using it for dogs.

To sibeluver3... this is the reason why I didn't want a pure husky, as they have such strong prey drives, and then reason I would never go for a terrier again. I love Prinz to bits (too much sometimes) and yes he has killed but some won't understand this, our bond is incredibly strong, he is like a part of me. I honestly would run away if someone wanted to have him put down. It's not just a dog to me, he is irreplaceable. For the record I don't think that my static shock collar is making him fear me. I have never used it for training. I have tried to train him to leave living things alone, but he blanks out, doesn't hear me. If he happens to chase something he gets a 'leave' command and if he ignores it, a zap. I am happy in the knowledge that more sheep (and chickens) are alive because of it.
This one only has 8 settings (again, I have tried it on me), and it beeps before the zap. It also has a setting of just beep, so that they get a chance to stop before the zap. This noise stimulation works too (it's assocaited with the zap).
I have said the whole way through this thread that in the wrong hands this could be an awful tool... but at the same time my dog is allowed freedom to run about, which to me is the most important thing (next to not killing of course). Some may not agree with this, but that is my fault, being too soft. Perhaps if I would have been harder on him from a young age (as I am now with my 6month old), this might not have developed into such a strong instinct... but hindsight is as they say, a wonderful thing.

p.s. I would NEVER ever recommend using this device for fear, or fear-based aggression. That is the worst thing anyone could do.

I can see the point of these collars as a last resort to save the dog's life. I am not talking about situations such as chasing/worrying livestock which can be easily controlled by the owner. Rather I am thinking of something like teaching the dog that attacking venemous snakes in the garden has an unpleasant consequence. In the snake season it worries me a great deal and there is no way I can prevent the dogs from investigating them if they are around. One does develop a 'snake sense' but it is not always reliable or accurate.

An electric collar, in the hands of an expert in its use, can do the trick but it needs excellent timing and professional 'set-ups'. Get it wrong and the dog becomes wary of the cage rather than the snake. I am not experienced in the use of these collars so would never, ever, try it myself. Danger to the dog's life in situations that are beyond the control of the handler is the only circumstance in which I would consider electric collars as an aversion tool.

In the last couple of weeks I have seen one of these collars save a dogs life. It was a stock chaser and had killed 2 Lambs. The owner paid for the Lambs and the man sought help as he didnt want to lose his dog. He got one of these collars, and the SAME farmer agreed to let him try it in his fields!! He had tuition from the seller (dont know which company) and it worked! The dog pays no interest at all now. I believe it took 3 "shocks" to deter the behaviour. The dog is a Labrador, and thanks to the collar, he is still alive.
Dawn.

Hi Griff,

that will not stop the chasing, which is what I ultimatly need. A dog doesn't need to kill to be put down up here. If he 'worries' a flock of sheep the farmer has rights to shoot him, even if that dog is just having fun and is not likely to kill (obviously Prinz is).
When it happened, I was out looking for a rescue dog that was extremly nervous and the people had her on trial. She went missing, and I went looking for her with my dogs. We entered a massive field, Prinz was only a year old, and there where no sheep in sight. Prinz suddenly took off from sight and would not listen; he knew what was over the hill. Obviously I had no idea what he would do. Now I can freely walk where ever, sometimes it is NOT obvious where sheep are. If he takes off and does not listen, a low zap will stop him, and give me a moment to give him a return command, where I can put him on the lead.
This does not happen very often, indeed the last time I used it was at xmas time. It's not something I enjoy to use, but as I mentioned earlier, I want him to have freedom. Which I know you all think is ludicrous!

You then go onto say 'I have never used it for training.'???????

Out of interest, we all know that dogs sense the world VERY differently to us, there's is not the visual world that we live in, they sense the world through smell and sound. A world we can't really ever hope to imagine. Therefore, how are we to posssibly know how distressing a shock collar can be? Not just in terms of physical pain, but in a sensory world like their's???? They are not mini humans, their world is different...soooo different.

Jess I really hope that nothing happens to your very cute little dog.
I appreciate that you care for him, I do not and will not ever understand why you are more willing to shock a dog than keep it on a long line or lead, a dog that you care for. No, it may not hurt you, but, you know when it's coming ( the dog doesn't...you anticipate the beep, it's all a shock to the dog, AND you have no understanding of your dog's perception of it.

As an aside, there are some wonderful tales on here of the work people have done with their dogs. There are also some wonderful examples of training methods that are used. I am particularly moved by Collie Mad...explaining how her dogs do things because they WANT to please HER...how fantastic is that???? Sibelover said pretty much the same thing. I'm constantly amazed and thrilled by the dedication and devotion of dog lovers out there...

Hi Borderdawn,
Sorry I don't think it's the collar that saved that dog's life, more an understanding and kind farmer.