Yer Mary is just a dog trainer you must be another person who has never watched Crufts obviously as Mary is the cruel woman who worked four her dogs at once in HTM

VS has until these programs only had a business in the US

This is from her website

It begs the question why wasn't a UK dog trainer or more correctly behavior modificationists(this is how her"style"is called in the states) employed ? rather than this English US based BM ?

I had never heard of VS until her UK programmes became a point of discussion. I have never seen her in operation so cannot comment on her levels of expertise/empathy/understanding/success, etc.

I would be interested to know if anyone believes that the methods that she employs cause any actual harm physically or psychologically to dogs or owners, or if they may encourage viewers to try inappropriate behaviour modification with their own dogs?

Or is she just raising awareness that all dogs can and should be trained to be acceptable household pets and to behave in an acceptable manner in the community?

I think VS's methods are okay - nothing particularly new that I haven't seen elsewhere, but I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it and providing they're patient, gentle, motivation/reward based; that's a good thing. And providing they teach the owners how they are adversely affecting the dog - also a good thing. And anything that draws this type of thing to the public eye, eg via tv, has to be good.

VS obviously has a gimmick too - the Ms Whiplash look - but that's okay for TV and has probably helped get her on there in the first place. I admire her business acumen, if I'm honest, and wish I were in her shoes . Envious? Well, maybe a bit - what a job. Except I'd have dogs. But there is a lot of criticism for the Amichien methods and founder, yet she's had dogs all her life.

Course there are loads of fab trainers/behaviourists out there who are equally, if not more, effective (our puppy class instructor was a gem and we saw a wolf handler who is also a behaviourist and his methods were very good too) - but that's the way things seem to be. Ordinary writers can't get a look in with the celeb 'authors' beating paths to publishers doors - you wait, Chantelle from BB will be bringing out a novel next. . Same goes with decent musicians who can't get a look in.

Anyway, I do have to question the speed at which VS seems to turn these dogs around. I have wondered if some of the dogs are actors themselves they seem completely reformed characters in no time.

I think a really good trainer not only has to understand dogs but people too so that they can quickly pick up on anything the owners are doing that is causing certain behaviours. Then they have to be blessed with the ability to get through to the owners in such a way that it brings about a change in their behaviour and hence the dogs' behaviour.

We've already had a JRT that has had an air horn used to modify it's behaviour as per VS to our training club.

Hm the reason he refused to obey in the first place ? He was a baby puppy-now he jumps at every reasonably loud noise like the doorbell !!

His barking has now been controlled by teaching a stop command via titbit clicker/training in a couple of days. we are now working or desensitivation to tha noise caused by over zealous & incorrect use of the Air Horn

BTW responsible dog ownership is never letting the undesirable behaviour starting in the first place & reasearching how to raise/own a well behaved dog before you get it, not messing the dog up & then getting someone in to straightened out the problems.

Fair point - totally agree with you - but is the solution to not have anyone to rectify the problems and for people to just abandon these dogs to rescue centres. Sometimes it requires a medium - such as a TV program to highlight responsible dog ownership - which if you read her book or watch the program I believe you will find she does promote.

She makes no bones about telling owners that they are causing the problem - she has fostered many dogs and just because she doesnt own a dog doesnt mean that her methods ( or her borrowed methods) dont work.

At the end of the day people like different methods of training and being made aware of a situation.

As a side note I personally dont rate Mary Ray and not because i dont think she is a good trainer but I personally cant stand seeing those dogs dance and think its a ridiculous thing- I would rather see time spent training a dog that has behavioral problems than time spent trainign a dog to dance. JMO

Each to their own and all that - but I dont necessarily think that years and years of experience means that you are a good trainer ( and when I say you i dont mean anyone personally) I think its understanding a dogs body language and mentality that makes you good - everyone has to learn somewhere dont they.

i would far rather see VS doing what she does than a outdated trainer yanking a dog around on a choke chain - and yet that used to be and still is in some places " a proper training method - doesnt mean its right though "

Ok so some like her and some don't then!

Is it bad not to watch crufts on tv lol Sorry that I don't know Mary what's her name...

Anyone for babs woodhouse....lol...I can only just remember her but I remember her breathing up noses or something

& you know that Mary doesn't do the latter & spends all her time doing HTM then?

Each to their own

Mary is of course Head trainer & hands on at one of the best dog clubs in the UK & that is for all aspects of dog training from rescued dogs to Crufts winners. Responsible for the teaching of kind training methods to 1,000s of dogs each year not just a carefully selected for maximum ratings few(BTW they turned down some really diifficult dogs on the grounds of the area in which the dogs lived yet included a dog with a lesser problem 5 minutes away I wonder why ?

Along with people like Sylvia Bishop she has changed dog training dg training from the yank & choker brigade to motivational methods. No Air Horns or pan lids either(not leather gear)

It is clear that VS is very popular here so I'm whistling in the wind in trying to explain that you don't need to pay £1000's to the likes of Jan Fennell, VS etc to get help to "modify" behaviour. Enjoy the entertainment & just pray that more dogs don't get traumatized by having an air horn etc used on them

Nooooooooooooo! I'm more of an Ian Dunbar girl myself.

I'm not saying I liked her...LOL...She was scary!...I think the the crazy woman in the ad's between it's me or the dog has the right idea...train stuffed dogs, easy!