I've been working all my life with dogs but i can't, for the life of me, assess character and temperament by looking at a dog that is paraded in front off me for a few seconds/minutes.

And about structural soundness a dog may "look" sound but it is only when you put pressure (eg work with it) that you find hidden flaws.

How come that in GSD population HD is a problem and with working mals in NVBK, which are bred mostly without papers and x-rays off the hips, HD isn't a problem because almost non excisting?

Not saying it is easy, or that it is always done, just that some judges do try to the best of their ability to assess all points of the dogs presented. Temperament/character may be indicated by the way that the dog reacts to those around it, human and canine, and how it accepts the 'going over', which can sometimes be pretty thorough. The going over can also give some indication of soundness, as can movement around the ring. Maybe not a good substiute for watching a dog actually working, but an experienced breed judge is, or should be, competent to assess faults in both structure and temperament. Judges are human and not infallible but some do give it their best efforts

A show ring is a pretty stable surrounding. It is a field (with green carpet) surrounded by people behind fences, the dogs are walking around at a certain distance only a limited number of people in the ring that are "static" eg not jumping around. A minimum off training can prepare your dog for this. So i don't see how you can judge character For instance how do you judge the way they react to gunfire? I would love to se a judge pulling an alarmpistol out of his pocket and firing it in the air

Greetings


Johan

Jessica you say you had a conversation with someone at a pet shop and they expressed an opinion, that was one persons opinion and that does not make them an authority on the breed. When showing dogs you need three Challenge Certificates to become a champion and it is often a long road to reach that goal...and you are appraised by many judges.. and get many opinions.

A good show person and judge is able to interpret the standard taking into account the required temperament and the purpose for which the breed was originally intended. They also have the ability to close their eyes and see the perfect example of their breed in their minds eye, it can take many years of going to shows and looking at hundreds of dogs to be able to do this, it is called 'having an eye' and goes for all livestock, some people never can do it.

We have had this discussion on here many times before, and I am really not sure why some people think it is so wrong for there to be a slight difference between the look of working dogs and show dogs anyway. When athletes are training and taking part in the Olympics do they look the same as when they are not in training ,are they not leaner and with more muscle when they are participating in events and does this make them a different people ? As I have also stated here before we had cockers that could work and show and one was a duel champion Carry. These dogs did not do both things at the same time. When Carry was being shown she had a full coat and all her feathers, she looked superb in her Sunday best and had a coat colour I have rarely seen it looked like silver shot through with gold threads, she also looked quite stocky partly because of her long feathers . When she was with a shoot she was removed from shows, became leaner because she was out all day with the gamekeeper and her feathers were shorter ...she was still the same dog though but looked slightly different. She was named Carry in the first place because from being a puppy she was always carrying something in her mouth



In many working breeds I have seen both so called 'types' many of whom could be either show or working dogs depending on how they were prepared and if the owner had sufficient knowledge of both activities to be able to do that .. but if people really think the standard of their breed is not being correctly adhered to, it is up to them with the help of the breed club to change things by breeding to type what they consider to be the correct example of the breed.

IMO the perfect lab is what family members of mine have allways had, a mix of a working type lab and a show type lab IMO thats the perfect lab

What would happen if the dog was shown when he was in his hunting "gear". Would the same judge place this dog at the same place? I doubt it. THe judges are judging beautifull pictures and not dogs. They look at the way they are groomed etc. A lean mean working dog hasn't the desired grooming and is thus eliminated.

Greetings


Johan

I would not show a dog looking less than it's best just as if I go somewhere special I do my hair and look my best, I don't go covered in mud with bits of old twig in my hair

I would also consider it discourteous to a Judge to show a dog that looked less than the best I could make it look .

*From what i've been told the lack of exercise means that the ligaments aren't being used properly and therefore not stretching at the normal rate or something. If the ligaments aren't stretching then the bones cant grow at a normal rate and you will end up with dogs that are more stumpy looking.. That's what i've been told anyway *

I can`t see that happening myself, I`d think the only way to stunt a dogs growth would be malnutrition & lack of excercise to the extent you say would give muscle wastage

Jessica I don`t know which breeders you are talking about but I know a few of the *very top breeders* myself & I can assure you their dogs are out daily, I`ve stayed with them & seen for myself how they`re kept.
So unless you have seen this for yourself then I`d suggest its rumours & back biting

Should hope you wouldn`t be going out with bits o twig in your hair H :smt044 :smt043 :smt044

You evade the question. A working cocker ripping trough undergrouth and bushes hair isn't that long but a bit battered. If you give such a dog a good bath and brush what would the judges appreciation be.

Besides I i read correctly between the lines of your awnser a dog that is worked isn't "the best" it should be otherwise


Greetings

Johan