i agree and i don't even own either of the breeds i never have but that doesn't mean that i wouldn't.

its about time we all respected each other and our own taste in dogs, each to their own regardless how you may feel about that breed.

dog lovers are dog lovers breed shouldn't come into it.

Whoa I got the info from the site of a member of the NI group who obviously needs to update their site & the puppy was sold at 8 weeks old(not by the site owner BTW)so how would the breeder know the puppy had bad hips & the breeder is still a member so not who you think it is.

They are not a breed as such yet in my eyes as they have no in depth consistency in the type of dog breeding produced & no real in depth breed standard so people like me can see what breeders are aiming to prioduce. There is still scope within the most detailed breed standard for diversity(you onl have to look at GSDs to see that)

The owner of the dysplasic bitch has been offered another puppy from other parents which haven't according to the BVA been scored as yet, he obviously did not take up the offer. Her brother too has HD but not as bad as hers(not scored but the bitches ownbers have seen the plates) & sadly the owners have a bitch & plan to breed them without having him scored

His bitch is lovely but he did have to work hard to socialize her & after all the heart break he will not be getting another. She has been spayed of course & will be having the hip replacement when the specialist considers she has stopped growing. He's very lucky as he has an outdoor swimming pool which has been converted for her use all year round.

He plans on getting her a companion, but from a Kennel & breed that has a long history of hip scoring & health testing but not until she is fully recovery from her hip operations so may be a year down the line

Sorry but developers of new breed must start out with dogs from lines with known hip histories & reject any dog that does not have the best of hips & other health problems. I don't mean just the parents hip scored etc but going back at least 5 if not more generations To fail to do so is criminal.

Designer dogs are just that bred for looks & not for any purpose(hence the cutesy oodle dogs) & if serious developers want their breeding program
to be taken seriously then they have to be brutal in taking anything other than the best dogs out of the breeding program & not sell any puppies for breeding(that might mean neutering very early). Then & only then will they be taken seriously & actually develop a healthy new breed

Look at Patterdales if a line is getting a bit too keen the bring in new blood via other breeds like Border Terriers. They are bred for a purpose & unfit dogs do not get bred from, the result is a lovely dog like the one a neighbour has he's nine years old but is as fit as a lop & only visits the vets for his vaccs. He's fiesty but not nasty or aggressive. They are a mixture of several breeds & over the last 100 years have evolved into a breed. To get real consistency it does take a long time & dedicated knowledgeable breeders

but thats just it no breeder should breed from any dog that has health problems regardless of what breed it is.
you can't blame the breed of dog for the owners actions and allowing pups to be produced that could have health issues.
this is bad breeders not bad breeds.

Looking into the dysplasic bitches pedigree the dogs of the other breeds used in the past were not of the highest quality & so were unlikely to produce better dogs & this is the root of the problem. It's not the dogs fault but the bad/poor/uninformed breeders that want to "develop"a new breed without doing enough in depth research first

i agree but unless the best dogs are used at the begining of any breed no pups would be produced to allow the breed to stablise in numbers or health issues within it.
it takes years to produce sound lines but genetics can still throw bad dogs even if the breeding is done correctly.
all breeds no matter how old they are start at the same place as the new ones we have today.
for some one to say that breed is nothing but this or that is wrong it takes years to do it right but it doesn't mean it will never happen.

Sorry to hear about your friend and I agree with you that any health issues need to be dealt with - that is not negotiable, but nor is it up for dispute within the societies as this is what they are determined to do.

But I must take issue with this comment "bred for looks and not for any purpose". As I said before, they were bred for temperament, health and with an aim to get back to a traditional type of dog that has a nice straight back etc. and yes, wolfie looks. It really winds me up when I hear this 'purpose' argument being touted. There are many dogs around where I live - greyhounds, whippets, GSDs, staffs, labs, jack russells - you name it and not ONE of them so far as I know is being used for the purpose for which it was bred.

Is it then cruel to keep a GSD as a mere pet? Or a greyhound? Or to keep a working dog just for a few trips around the show ring every month?

As for health many pedigree dogs these days have associated health problems - dodgy hip alignments, flat ears, sloping backs, bulging eyes, squashed muzzles - etc. etc. Many of these breeds are condemned to develop some kind of health disorder because of their design.

As a child we had a GSD with a huge pedigree - he got HD at the age of 8 and we had to have him put to sleep.

I thought the labradoodle was bred as an allergy friendly dog?????

re bred for look so was leonbergers
they was bred to resemble the town crest of leonberg...... that was a lion thats 1 of the reasons they are also know as the lion dog.

Joe Dee - this is serious stuff you are saying and, all other arguments aside, if you know who's bitch this is will you please email me privately (or get the owner to). This case is something we are totally unaware of and we should be informed. Also, we don't know of any breeder who states on their website that there is HD in the breed - so if you can point me in the direction of that particular website I would like to have a look.

The particular bitch I thought you were referring to was one bred by a breeder in Devon - who sold it on knowing it had crap hips and telling the new owner to take out insurance because they all get bad hips. We certainly do not condone this behaviour and it not something the society wants to be involved in.

You seem to know a lot about the background of this particular bitch and I'm a bit lost how you seem to know about its ancestry - again, can you enlighten me. We take health issues very seriously but if someone is having a problem and doesn't tell us then how are we going to know. I find the whole thing not quite right - are you absolutely sure it was a Northern Inuit and not a Utonagan, as we don't know of any N.I. in yorkshire with problems.

the info can only.
if i knew of some one breeding against the rules it would bother me if i did nothing.
the leo club names and shames owners that go against the breeding in the quartly news letter that all members get and what they did.
maybe its an idea for the ni society?

oh, you can rest assured that members of the N.I. society do know who it is - but dogweb isn't the place for such info. We do not condone bad breeding habits and are doing all we can to tighten up on breeding, breeders and the suitability of breeding stock. We take these things very seriously, despite what some people think.

Which is why I am concerned if this one got passed us and we knew nothing about it. It seems very strange indeed.